[Cloud9...68]

OK, yet another decision point on my project to make my 968 into more track-worthy, but not yet fully dedicated race car. My near-term plan is to finish the series of courses at Driveway Austin, a Skip Barber-like driving academy right in my home town (I'm no longer quite as jealous of you guys who live a stone's throw from RS Barn <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/biggrin.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> ), do a bunch of track days for awhile, and then maybe start racing competitively. But for the immediate future (the next 2-4 years, most likley) logistical and financial limitations pretty much rule out actual door-to-door racing for me.



With that background, here's my dilemma: I want to install some sort of roll bar/chassis brace/harness bar into my car for all the obvious reasons of safety, improved chassis stiffness, and compatability with racing seats. My preference would be to buy Flash's chassis brace, because I want to support him, plus it looks like a beautifully engineered unit. But since I will probably race this car someday (and who knows, once I get all the suspension and engine mods done, I may get bitten by the bug so hard that I may end up racing sooner rather than later), I'm wondering if I should go with more of a complete roll cage - at least one that covers the entire roofline. I've read the NASA rules on roll cages, but unfortunately, being such a newbie to the whole racing world, I don't understand the terminology they're using well enough to know exactly what they require.



As I said in another thread, the ideal thing would be to get the D1R brace, and then add to it later, but I'm not sure this is possible, or cost effective. What would you guys recommend? Thanks.

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[aslet]

The D1R brace is bolt in to factory points. If you get a roll cage it can be welded to reinforced plates. I'm sure the roll bar would be fine in a roll, but a full welded cage would be better.



Another thing to think about is the pain in getting into a car with a full cage and door bars. If you'll be hopping in and out for short sessions it may become a pain. A proper full cafe will be safer though...

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[flash]

cloud - i sent you an email - ring me up and we can discuss this in more detail



the brace can be added to - the plates can easily be welded in place as well as bolted - i had that in mind when i designed it - it's the same material, and the same locations as a cage would have for the rear hoop



the only thing that would be of consideration is that i had to leave a bit of gap near the roof, to allow installation, and a built in cage could get closer to the roof - this might help if you area really tall

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[Cloud9...68]

Flash,



That sounds very promising. I'll give you a call from home tonight - we're getting a little low on our family plan's cell phone minutes at the moment, so I'd rather not use the cell. Thanks; looking forward to talking to you.

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[nissanite]

I suggest the Brace first & then it can be removed (with the complete interior) and be sold. My track car has a bolt-in roll cage by a well known company & it is not user friendly. Ingress & egress is very difficult & I hate it. The only good thing is is race legal.

A proper weld-in cage will cost between $1200 to $2500 depending but here is the main point. Just like the Design 1 strut tower brace & lower control arm brace, a weld in cage will strengthen the uni-body. While driving on the highway, if you stick a finger in between the bolt in cage & the a-piller you can feel a pinch while going over bumps. Drive a bunch of track days with a modified suspension & the car will continue to flex more & more. A weld in cage will help stiffen the chassis if it is braced properly & the handling of the car will benifit as well as staying intact.

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[Cloud9...68]

Nissanite,



Thanks for the input. I have a strut brace, and the D1R lower control arm brace, so I would think that between this and the D1R chassis brace, my car will be plenty stiff for track day driving. Not as stiff as a full cage, but as you point out, the pain of dealing with a full cage is probably not worth the slightly increased stiffnes at this early point in my high performance driving career.

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[RS Barn]

A propper race cage runs between $3000 to $4500 based on sanctioning body. There are lots of new rules in most track and race venues.

If you are ever thinking about a cage, don't look at bolt in roll bars with add ons. There are a few companies that do this. The best advice

I received was not to build a cage to one series spec, but to all.

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[Cloud9...68]

Hmmm... That really complicates things. I'm looking for ways to "ease into" the possibility of eventually racing, starting by making the car more track worthy, taking classes, doing lots of track days, etc. But I'm finding more and more that it's very difficult to do things incrementally, unfortunately.

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[RS Barn]

I know,

Just have big picture in mind when thinking about DE vs Race. I haven't found a way to build an affordable and safe way to go from bolt in to weld in

bars or cages. There a few companies that offer products this way but there have been some bad results.

I just had a client in from Pittsburg who had a step by step soloution and luckily survived a very bad crash.

He was schooling me on lessons learned.

Saftey is paramount and not many people expose problems and soloutions.

Pete

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[flash]

the bolts on mine are incidental - the plates are what takes the load - it is easily converted to a weld in unit, and would then have the same landing plates and such as a weld in - the way a cage is built, the "add on" items would then be welded in place to the brace, just as if a cage were being custom built - there would be no difference in material or technique - you would add the parts one by one, just as a cage builder does - i had my unit built by one of the best known cage builders around here - he builds them for everything, including national winning off road vehicles, so he knows all about safety



that being said, a custom cage would likely still be better, if only because you could also choose where the tubes would go, which might be different and might provide a better structure - nobody has tested this to my knowledge though, and i tend to think, as does my cage builder, that it would be insignificant



as nissanite said above though, you could always just remove it, sell it, and go with a built in unit

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