[kodomokid]

Hello All,



I have been checking on my coolant level for quite some time now. Is it common that the coolant needs to be topped off after a couple of weeks? The car came this way so I do not have a reference for any other way of operation. I see no visible signs of a coolant leak on the block or radiator. Also there seems to be no internal mixing of coolant or oil. I noticed in the article in the May issue of Excellence about the 968 vs 964, that the engine bay shot of the 968 shows a very low coolant level in the over flow tank. Do any of you know of where I should be looking or should I just keep topping it off and not worry about it? I have to check but I think the radiator is relatively new. I did a search and came up with nothing useful.



Thanks for your help.

Brian

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[sasilverbullet]

Brian - unfortunately, loosing coolant with no visible signs of leakage is not a good thing. Could mean blown head gasket, that's what the problem with mine was. I just kept filling it up with coolant until one day, white smoke, which is not a good thing. If you keep driving the car with the white smoke you can do serious damage to the engine.



There is also numerous discussions about this issue on the forum, do a search and you will find lot's of guidance.



Good luck and I hope that the problem is just a small leak you can't see!

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[gryphon]

Brian, don't rule out an external leak just yet. I've had small cracks in coolant reservoirs of two vehicles in the past that were not immediately obvious.



Tom

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[kodomokid]

[quote name='sasilverbullet' post='36326' date='Jun 2 2007, 12:02 PM']Brian - unfortunately, loosing coolant with no visible signs of leakage is not a good thing. Could mean blown head gasket, that's what the problem with mine was. I just kept filling it up with coolant until one day, white smoke, which is not a good thing. If you keep driving the car with the white smoke you can do serious damage to the engine.



There is also numerous discussions about this issue on the forum, do a search and you will find lot's of guidance.



Good luck and I hope that the problem is just a small leak you can't see![/quote]



Thanks but I have no white smoke or oil in my coolant or vice versa. That is what is puzzling me. Thanks.

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[earossi]

If you do not see any coolant on the ground and there is no coolant in the oil, and you have determined that the system needs to be topped off every couple of weeks, my vote is that you have blown head gasket. I minor seepage would not produce any noticeable white smoke; and, since it appears to be a very slight leak, I think that white smoke would be hard to see.



To make a more educated guess, have the radiator cap tested and then put a pressure test on the cooling system. If you have a slight head gasket leak, your system will not hold pressure. But, the rules are simple: there are only about three ways to loose coolant (with a seal leaks, or a hose, or your reservoir overflows). Secondly, you can have an internal leak in the oil/water cooler, which produces a milky looking oil which is coolant and oil attempting to mix. Thirdly, you have to have coolant leaking into the combusion chamber, which is usually indicative of a failed head gasket.



Good luck.

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[S_Cal968]

To add... If the coolant is getting into the cylinders, a possible indicator is an unusual deposit on the spark plug(s). If your coolant is green, the deposit will be a greenish-white. A spark plug electrode should be a light tan.

I occasionally have to add coolant and found a couple of my hoses seeping. The factory pinch clamps don't hold as well as the adjustable type.

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[kodomokid]

[quote name='earossi' post='36345' date='Jun 2 2007, 08:52 PM']If you do not see any coolant on the ground and there is no coolant in the oil, and you have determined that the system needs to be topped off every couple of weeks, my vote is that you have blown head gasket. I minor seepage would not produce any noticeable white smoke; and, since it appears to be a very slight leak, I think that white smoke would be hard to see.



To make a more educated guess, have the radiator cap tested and then put a pressure test on the cooling system. If you have a slight head gasket leak, your system will not hold pressure. But, the rules are simple: there are only about three ways to loose coolant (with a seal leaks, or a hose, or your reservoir overflows). Secondly, you can have an internal leak in the oil/water cooler, which produces a milky looking oil which is coolant and oil attempting to mix. Thirdly, you have to have coolant leaking into the combusion chamber, which is usually indicative of a failed head gasket.



Good luck.[/quote]



Question though, If I do have a blown head gasket, even if minor, shouldn't I see signs of oil and coolant starting to mix? At the rate I am losing coolant, I'm not sure if a minor blown head gasket is the cause. I do not see any white smoke out of my exhaust. Not even on start up after the car has sat over night. If I did have some leakage into the combustion chamber, wouldn't the engine also run rough for a little when the car is first started up? I have not had a pressure test done on the cooling system yet. The system does seem to hold its pressure since there is still some pressure in the system even after several hours of the car sitting and the cap does seem to hold pressure in the overflow tank. I forgot to state that I only drive the car once or twice a week. It is a weekend car. I guess I need to over the engine bay again looking for a visible leak. I hope it is a simple old seal and not a head gasket.



[quote name='S_Cal968' post='36346' date='Jun 2 2007, 09:13 PM']To add... If the coolant is getting into the cylinders, a possible indicator is an unusual deposit on the spark plug(s). If your coolant is green, the deposit will be a greenish-white. A spark plug electrode should be a light tan.

I occasionally have to add coolant and found a couple of my hoses seeping. The factory pinch clamps don't hold as well as the adjustable type.[/quote]



Thanks...I will pull the plugs to see what condition they are.

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[wingers]

Just a thought,if the rad cap was not holding its correct pressure,maybe the water could be loss through the cap with hot expansion when driving.

Maybe worth looking at the level when hot after topping up to the min mark when cold.

Do not remove the cap when hot!

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[apex]

don't forget to eliminate the simple things first.



I also noticed a very slow loss of coolant over several months. I looked for leaks but never found one until one day after parking in a pristine garage saw a couple of drops from the center of the car below the radiator. Thought it must have been a leak directly from the radiator as my previous inspection of hoses, clamps, and drain plug showed no evidence of leaking.



as it turned out it *was* a sheared drain plug after all with a *very* slow drip.

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[doster]

[quote name='winger' post='36355' date='Jun 3 2007, 06:34 AM']Just a thought,if the rad cap was not holding its correct pressure,maybe the water could be loss through the cap with hot expansion when driving.

Maybe worth looking at the level when hot after topping up to the min mark when cold.

Do not remove the cap when hot![/quote]





winger you took the words out of my mouth, I also was losing fluid and couldn,t figure

it out until we had a hot day and noticed fluid dripping out the tank overflow tube

I put on a new cap and all is well. Its a cheep place to start!



good luck

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[Tom in Austin]

Slow leaks are tough because the fluid can vaporize on a hot surface and leave no drops. Another clue to look for are whitish deposits at hose connections. I have a very slow loss of coolant on my car and some whitish-colored deposits on the underside of the lower radiator hose. It's a recent hose and I've used sealant on the connection, re-tightened and adjusted, etc. and the deposits still show up there. So you could have something like that going on

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[sp4149]

[quote name='kodomokid' post='36352' date='Jun 3 2007, 12:45 AM']Question though, If I do have a blown head gasket, even if minor, shouldn't I see signs of oil and coolant starting to mix? At the rate I am losing coolant, I'm not sure if a minor blown head gasket is the cause. I do not see any white smoke out of my exhaust. Not even on start up after the car has sat over night. If I did have some leakage into the combustion chamber, wouldn't the engine also run rough for a little when the car is first started up? I have not had a pressure test done on the cooling system yet. The system does seem to hold its pressure since there is still some pressure in the system even after several hours of the car sitting and the cap does seem to hold pressure in the overflow tank. I forgot to state that I only drive the car once or twice a week. It is a weekend car. I guess I need to over the engine bay again looking for a visible leak. I hope it is a simple old seal and not a head gasket.[/quote]



I went through this 2 years ago. Losing coolant for 2-3 months. Emptying the reservoir completely on longer (1 hour trips). Coolant temperature would stay in normal range until the reservoir was empty, then it would get hot in stop and go traffic. Never saw coolant on the ground; didn't find any leaks. Never saw white smoke, until finally at the end of the 2-3 months white smoke for 10-20 seconds on startup. I shut the engine down, trucked it to the shop. Diagnosis: blown head gasket and since I had continued to use it during the 2-3 months, a slightly warped head. Since the coolant was going directly into the combustion chamber, no coolant was in the oil or vice versa. Coolant and oil were both changed with the head gasket, everything has been fine since.

-sp4149

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[kodomokid]

[quote name='sp4149' post='36412' date='Jun 4 2007, 11:06 AM']I went through this 2 years ago. Losing coolant for 2-3 months. Emptying the reservoir completely on longer (1 hour trips). Coolant temperature would stay in normal range until the reservoir was empty, then it would get hot in stop and go traffic. Never saw coolant on the ground; didn't find any leaks. Never saw white smoke, until finally at the end of the 2-3 months white smoke for 10-20 seconds on startup. I shut the engine down, trucked it to the shop. Diagnosis: blown head gasket and since I had continued to use it during the 2-3 months, a slightly warped head. Since the coolant was going directly into the combustion chamber, no coolant was in the oil or vice versa. Coolant and oil were both changed with the head gasket, everything has been fine since.

-sp4149[/quote]



That sounds horrible. Thank you for the information. I will take it in for an inspection.

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[Dean968]

[quote name='kodomokid' post='36424' date='Jun 4 2007, 10:06 PM']That sounds horrible. Thank you for the information. I will take it in for an inspection.[/quote]





I had coolant loss not too long ago - it turned out to be the heater matrix inside the car and as the leak was so small the carpet wasn't too wet to raise the alarm until the leak got a lot worse.... <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/mad.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />



Also the leak was limited to the drivers side (Right hand drive here, obviously) so if thats a common 'escape' for the water maybe you guys with your left-leggers wouldn't notice.



Just might be worth poking your head behind the console?

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[kodomokid]

[quote name='Dean968' post='36442' date='Jun 5 2007, 12:26 AM']I had coolant loss not too long ago - it turned out to be the heater matrix inside the car and as the leak was so small the carpet wasn't too wet to raise the alarm until the leak got a lot worse.... <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/mad.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />



Also the leak was limited to the drivers side (Right hand drive here, obviously) so if thats a common 'escape' for the water maybe you guys with your left-leggers wouldn't notice.



Just might be worth poking your head behind the console?[/quote]



Thank you. I have experienced a broken heater core before. The warning signs that I experienced were foggy windows, faint coolant smell in the vents. I haven't witnessed those signs yet but it is worth a look.

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[sp4149]

[quote name='kodomokid' post='36424' date='Jun 4 2007, 02:06 PM']That sounds horrible. Thank you for the information. I will take it in for an inspection.[/quote]



Brian,

How many miles on your car? We had about 75K on our 95 Cab when we had the problem.

Not a lot of miles compared to others who never had head gasket problems with a lot more miles.



-sp4149

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[kodomokid]

[quote name='sp4149' post='36473' date='Jun 5 2007, 11:29 AM']Brian,

How many miles on your car? We had about 75K on our 95 Cab when we had the problem.

Not a lot of miles compared to others who never had head gasket problems with a lot more miles.



-sp4149[/quote]



I have about 133K on it currently. A lot more than when you experienced your HG failure. What type of climate do you live in? Is pretty hot or is it similar to Northern Cali?

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[sp4149]

[quote name='kodomokid' post='36483' date='Jun 5 2007, 02:58 PM']I have about 133K on it currently. A lot more than when you experienced your HG failure. What type of climate do you live in? Is pretty hot or is it similar to Northern Cali?[/quote]



The car had been in San Diego for under 2 years, previously in Indiana for two years and before that in Florida. San Diego is a pretty moderate climate in a desert area. I've made trips to Palm Springs and Imperial Valley and it does seem to be better now in hot weather than it was before the HG failure. It's also been chipped and when the HG was replaced 7 of the 16 valves needed replacing; so the engine is in much better condition now. When it happened there was a sidebar discussion that at around 150K pulling the head and refreshing the valves, vario-cam, etc. was a good idea to restore lost performance, sort of long range PM.

-sp4149

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