[968Syncro]

Hello folks,

This is follow up from my post a couple of weeks ago where I found both a coolant leak and an auto trans fluid leak. http://www.968forums.com/index.php?showtopic=7302

I found the coolant leak (sometimes I have to let the car sit before I get enough separation anxiety and then am willing to go at it). Here is a pic of the leak.
   

Here is the plug after I removed what was left.
   

Apparently the drain plug on the lower left of the radiator broke in half. I have never removed it or touched it. The other half is still in the hole, I can see the blue stub in there. So the question is:
1. Can I just push the broken part back into the hole?
2. The hole is rather odd, appears to be a rubber material, is that the bottom part of the radiator?
3. If I have to remove it, any suggestions? I may be able to drill a small hole into it, but there is a risk I will push it in anyway when I apply pressure with a drill bit. How long is that stub? It is recessed in the hole about 2-4 mm, so there is no chance to get a grip on it.
4. Does anybody know is this plug is the same as on the 944 for example, or some other car? If so, then I may be able to drive tomorrow and find one around town. The PET shows part number 944 106 353 01.

Ok, so how did this break? A few weeks ago, I did hit a shopping center ramp fairly hard in a tight situation (even bent my Grieman grille which I have to straighten). But I don't think it was hard enough to cause impact on the radiator items.

And the big worry / question: you may recall that after I brought the car home it continued a slow leak. That is very consistent with the broken plug, since it just weeped for days, even today.

But the big worry is that my ATF fluid is just dripping out of the reservoir in the rear. This has never happened before. The car was level the whole time. So I am very worried that there is some damage in the radiator which I think contains a chamber for the coolant and a chamber to heat the ATF. I'd be grateful for ideas, does anybody know the internal architecture of the radiator chambers? Could there be an internal crack? I figure the next step is to pull the connections for the ATF, first the one on the passenger side above the lower radiator hose and see what is inside. And then on the driver's side as well. Again, the only reason I can think of for the ATF to just start to overflow is that coolant from the front is pushing it out the rear -- very odd, a bit scary.

To illustrate why I need help, here is a trivia picture for all. What is wrong with this picture?
   
Yeah, found when I inspected today. (It was me, been there since last summer [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ohmy.gif[/img] ).

Thanks all.
Roland

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[flash]

i just had that happen with the drain plug - i ordered 4 of them - was told by sunset they are specific to the 968

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[968Syncro]

Flash, yeah I also heard that these plugs can just plain break on their own.

Here is the update: I called the local P-car dealer, of course they don't stock this part. So I called one of the local repair shops, Black Forest (http://blackforestautomotive.com) and they had it. I've been bringing my cars to them for probably 20 years, good guys, so I drove down to pick up the part and spoke with Jeff who has been there a long time, knows the 944s / 968s real well. Like Flash, he said yes, he sees these plug break for no reason. Credit to Jeff for helping out (never knew what a "kudo" is, so I avoid the term).

Removing the stub: he suggested a reverse drill and then an easy-out, or glue a stick into the hole that I drilled. Said most likely the reverse drill will heat up the plastic and the drill will just turn it out. This sounds fine to me, I plan to give this process a try.

The leaking ATF: Jeff thinks it is not related to the coolant leak. Looking at the PET, it appears the ATF goes through a chamber on the right side of the radiator, doesn't go through the bottom where I was worried the radiator was cracked or something. He suggested the torque converter is just draining, and perhaps the ATF was overfilled, and after a few days it just overflowed. I have let the car sit for a few days before however, and this never happened. I've drained all the coolant, and there is no sign of an ATF in the coolant, none at all.

So I think the plan is to proceed, put the plug in, fill, and then start her up. Once warm I have to check the ATF level again, and after a short drive I am going to pull some of the ATF to see if there is any sign at all of coolant potentially in the fluid.

But please, any other ideas, hints, suggestions are totally welcome!

Thanks, Roland

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[968Syncro]

Ok, so in reading some more posts here on the list, I just realized that there cannot possibly be a leak in the radiator between the coolant and the ATF chambers. The pressure in the ATF circuit would certainly be so much higher than pressure in the cooling circuit, that the ATF would be pumped into the coolant. And there isn't anything in the coolant. Here was a good discussion: http://www.968forums.com/index.php?showtopic=5108

Roland

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[Lim Yong]

Seems the section in the radiator for the ATF goes to the small radiator driver side front. Does the radiator warm the ATF instead vs. cooling it?
I'm thinking it is not necessary in warm climates. Thoughts anyone. Another weight reduction possibility?
thanks

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[968Syncro]

Lim,

I've heard that the radiator heat exchanger for the ATF serves 2 purposes (other threads here on the forum):
- after starting the car, it warms the ATF faster so it is at the proper temperature. For example the correct way to check the ATF level is when it is warm. My tip is slow to shift for the first minute or so, I always figured that was because the ATF was cold.
- cools the ATF so it doesn't overheat, for example if the car is stuck in a long traffic jam and the outboard cooler won't work (doesn't have a fan).

Roland

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[flash]

removing the drain plug is incredibly easy - a screwdriver will probably do it - all i had to do was set the tip on an edge of the break and tap gently - it turned quickly and easily

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[rxter]

<!--quoteo(post=71430:date=May 5 2009, 03:33 PM:name=968Syncro)-->QUOTE (968Syncro @ May 5 2009, 03:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->To illustrate why I need help, here is a trivia picture for all. What is wrong with this picture?
Yeah, found when I inspected today. (It was me, been there since last summer [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ohmy.gif[/img] ).

Thanks all.
Roland<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


If you are looking for ways to drop weight you know where to start. Dude you take the best under car pics I've seen on this forum. Ought to be an award of some kind...

If you need a pair of hands or eyes let me know - happy to come over and help you with this.

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[968Syncro]

Joe, thanks for the offer to take a look, I might need it, but my current thought is also for me to slow down. I am a complete fan of logical thinking, but I haven't done so well this time:

- freaked out that the coolant leak might be getting into the ATF circuit causing the ATF leak without even considering that the ATF fluid runs at much higher pressure than the cooling system. This means that ATF would be in the coolant, and there was none.
- asked help on how to remove that broken blue stub still stuck in the radiator drain hole, without stopping to think that there are a variety of trivial techniques that would get it out.
- wrote a new thread about needing to replace the cooling fan, because the last time in the shop they told me it was broken. However on a hunch I checked the fuses this morning and number 15 (cooling fan 1) was blown. Sure it doesn't spin as freely as the other one, but I need to figure out why the fuse blew first.
- in that thread I stated that the obvious way was to remove the ATF crossover pipe and drop the fan shroud down, without considering that I also wrote to remove the stuff above the shroud and that this would allow me to remove the shroud from the top and avoid removing the ATF pipe.
- went out to purchase coolant, and forgot to check capacities or how much I have in the cupboard (sure the extra won't hurt, but...)
- kicked the cat (just kidding)

I'm loosin' it [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif[/img] , need to check my logical thinking, make sure I am doing my homework, and have all the right steps to debug and repair. Evidence does not equal conclusion -- assumptions are not facts -- there is a fine line between clever and stupid.

In any case we gotta take the Sunday morning drive down the coast one of these weeks.

Roland

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[968Syncro]

So, to bring closure to this thread....

Got er' done. Isn't there some guy that says that? Git 'er dun. Something like that.

1. Got the broken stub out by drilling 2 very small holes about the width of a small screwdriver, basically creating a slot, and then jamming the screw driver into those 2 holes crushing the material between them.

2. Basically there were not a whole bunch of complex problems which at first had me very concerned. It was the drain plug and refill/bleed the coolant. I need to keep an eye on the ATF level.

3. Got other stuff done while I was in there, like the right side fan (turned out to be a fuse), and pulled the bumper cover to straighten the Grieman grille -- yeah it bent in my hard journey up the ramp. I couldn't see a way to get it straight without removing the whole thing, then tapped it straight between a couple pieces of flat wood dampened with a couple of cloths. (I hate batwings.)

Hour test drive on a fine spring evening. I love 968s.

Roland

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