[lbpesq]

I have that on a round sticker on a couple of my guitars.

 

Bill

 

   

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[ds968]

From Reuters :  

 
Tesla advertising range estimates are not based in reality, the company went as far as to rig the range-estimating software within its cars.
Per Reuters, an early design of the software reflected Tesla’s range meter showing “rosy” projections for how far a car could travel on a full battery. Then, once the battery fell to under 50% charged, the projection would switch to a realistic number so as to avoid actually leaving drivers stranded with an empty battery.
However, drivers who noticed the abrupt switch thought something was wrong with their cars and scheduled service appointments. That’s where the Tesla  “Diversion Team” came in ;
the team was reportedly tasked with identifying customers who had scheduled appointments based on the misleading range estimates. From there, they were meant to tell those customers there was nothing wrong with their cars and that they should cancel their appointments — without ever telling them what the actual issue had been.
The issue of Tesla’s range estimates being inaccurate has been reported previously — earlier this year, the South Korean government fined the EV maker $2.2 million for failing to tell customers about the shorter driving range of its cars in low temperatures, Reuters reported.
However, the extent of how intentionally Tesla misled its customers and then attempted to cover it up had not previously been known.
Tesla has been forced to settle several lawsuits over violating consumers’ rights, including a recent one in which the company was accused of doubling the price of its solar roofs after customers had already signed a contract. In addition, experts have said that the company’s misleading marketing around its “Full-Self Driving” feature, which still requires driver supervision, has led to unsafe driving practices and accidents.

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[Inkedupfatboy]

Detroit's' been fudging mileage results for years - the cars they test with have every drag inducing item taken off - no wipers, mirrors, different rims -

SO the fact that Tesla lied about how far you get on a charge doesn't surprise -

A guy in Mom's neighbor hood had one go from 300 down to 150 miles with in just a few months of ownership and he was told he needed a new battery. How a senior on fixed income affords that I don't know. I don't think he can.

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[dlearl476]

Detroit's' been fudging mileage results for years - the cars they test with have every drag inducing item taken off - no wipers, mirrors, different rims -

SO the fact that Tesla lied about how far you get on a charge doesn't surprise -

A guy in Mom's neighbor hood had one go from 300 down to 150 miles with in just a few months of ownership and he was told he needed a new battery. How a senior on fixed income affords that I don't know. I don't think he can.

That’s a little less nefarious than creating a team specifically for the purpose of gaslighting owners. Here’s a link to the full article DS posted. 

https://www.reuters.com/investigates/spe...ies-range/

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[ds968]

That’s a little less nefarious than creating a team specifically for the purpose of gaslighting owners. Here’s a link to the full article DS posted. 

https://www.reuters.com/investigates/spe...ies-range/

Yeah, the Diversion Team is about as unethical of a practice as it gets .. 

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[Rap]

Perhaps much of what we are being force fed on ev’s isn’t true.

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[Inkedupfatboy]

People are renting cars, finding out they are electric and then have no way to charge them. Someone in AARP wrote they had to reschedule a flight because they couldn't find a place to recharge the car.

 

We drove by a Tesla lot in Cocoa Beach today and the lot was crammed full, so to me, it means not a lot of people around here want the stupid things.

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[Kim]

I think that those who don't want one simply don't need to get one.  It is irritating that people find every factoid, quote, opinion, example and outlying observation to justify why they are bad.  Give it up. Your complaining will not make them go away - just don't get one. My car, at this time of year when i don't need much heat, gets as many real-world km (based on the odometer reading) as the number of km being added based on the charging records. Those are facts. 

 

Its like the crap being touted about Covid vaccinations - if you don't want one, don't get one.  Its your choice.  But if you don't want a vaccination don't try to justify it because you want to be a Google armchair epidemiologist.

 

You can get on with living in the future or get on with living in the past. 

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[ds968]

I think that those who don't want one simply don't need to get one.  It is irritating that people find every factoid, quote, opinion, example and outlying observation to justify why they are bad.  Give it up. Your complaining will not make them go away - just don't get one. My car, at this time of year when i don't need much heat, gets as many real-world km (based on the odometer reading) as the number of km being added based on the charging records. Those are facts. 

 

Its like the crap being touted about Covid vaccinations - if you don't want one, don't get one.  Its your choice.  But if you don't want a vaccination don't try to justify it because you want to be a Google armchair epidemiologist.

 

You can get on with living in the future or get on with living in the past. 

 

Agree on EVs, totally an individual choice, but on the flip side a healthy dialogue on the merits and demerits of EVs can't hurt .   But don't compare it with Covid vaccines "choice"  ;  perfectly fine if you want to take a risk based on whatever beliefs you may have , go ahead  and jump off a bridge if you wish, but endangering other people's heath and lives is NOT your choice !              

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[ds968]

From one of the Maserati forum member ( well said, IMO ) 

 

“ If you just want acceleration; go to an amusement park, you can get the feeling of accelerating from 0-60 mph in less than 2 seconds for little money. Because mastering acceleration is not a challenge. You just have to make sure that the steering is straight.


Have you ever driven a super sports car with enthusiasm? Perhaps on a race track? Or on a home circuit that you know very well? Curvy? Maybe in the mountains? In a place where you want to hear the engine scream again and again? Because this sound gives you feedback on where you are in the performance spectrum of your super sports car? Do you know the feeling of wanting to decide for yourself that you have engaged the right gear when entering a corner? Enjoying the downshift with every loud thump on your eardrums? Or deciding when to shift into the next gear by ear when accelerating out? You enjoy the scream of the engine telling you how brutally the speed is increasing? You want to feel the enormous lightness of a super sports car when braking, at the limit of the cornering apex and when accelerating out? Do you want to internalise the physical combination of a sports car's maximised power-to-weight ratio with your mind and your backside? Want to feel this nimble, light, extremely direct behaviour of a super sports car as the primary advantage of a sports car with a maximized power-to-weight ratio? The holy grail of motorsport?



If none of this means anything to you in a super sports car, then think about the electronic drive. But also think about whether you want to buy a super sports car for your personal emotions or whether you simply want to stand out or please other people.



And if you write that you are buying a supercar that is far too heavy and emotionless just because you want to be "part of the solution", then don't be surprised if you earn absolutely no respect. “ 

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[Rap]

Well written. Many tracks do not allow ev cars. It’s a combustion issue. And of course, a monkey can drive a car fast in a straight line.

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[Cloud9...68]

I'm baffled why so many EV makers focus on the "performance-oriented" end of the market.  Two of the main components of the sports/performance car experience are (relatively) light weight, and a stirring exhaust note.  I agree with Scotty Kilmer that EV makers should focus on making small, inexpensive vehicles suited to city driving and basic commuting, where they would have the biggest impact on what their focus should be, which is reducing CO2 emissions from the transportation sector. 

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[Inkedupfatboy]

Why are so many people trying to sell this so hard?

If it was such a great thing, that worked so well and solved so many issues, people would be clamoring to it.

The fact is, it isn't, it doesn't and it won't solve all the world's ills.

Battery production and recycling is as dirty and toxic as it gets and the tech doesn't solve a lot of issues.

If you live in such and urban area that it makes sense, riding mass transit makes more sense and gets more cars off the roads faster thus reducing carbon faster.

I live in a rural area, and drive too many miles, and my house is already all electric and I don't want to add another huge addition to my electric bill.

It comes down to this, if people like them fine, but the gov't and everyone else needs to just stop trying to cram them down everyone's throats

and gilt tripping those of us who won't do it.

UPS ordered a lot of trucks that I believe they backed out of...When you see an EV cruise ship, let me know.

How many ev's does it take to offset one elon musk or jeff bezos rocket launch?

I'm out.

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[lbpesq]

I was discussing EVs with a friend the other day.   He opined that battery cars will wind up like CDs, the transitional media between analog vinyl/tape and digital streaming.    In the case of automobiles, he sees battery power as transitional between ICE and hydrogen powered cars.    Toyota recently came out with the hydrogen powered Mirai.  He lives in SoCal and said they are starting to build hydrogen stations around L.A.


Bill

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[Inkedupfatboy]

Crazy, but until it's at a price point that makes sense, it won't fly.

I can buy a lot of gas for the cost of a 75K EV SUV...

I am still upset with cash for clunkers - that was the beginning of this push.

It's like the movie "Robots". Get rid of the parts and all anyone has left to buy are upgrades.

 

They are doing this with everything. I am most likely writing this on my last PC. They are adding ai to everything.

I can't buy a new phone now. I am still running a galaxy 7. The new ones have ai built in.

Like EV's I don't like it or want it.

 

Other people can have it, good for them. All I ask is they leave me alone. I just want to do my 20 and get out....

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[Cloud9...68]

I was discussing EVs with a friend the other day.   He opined that battery cars will wind up like CDs, the transitional media between analog vinyl/tape and digital streaming.    In the case of automobiles, he sees battery power as transitional between ICE and hydrogen powered cars.    Toyota recently came out with the hydrogen powered Mirai.  He lives in SoCal and said they are starting to build hydrogen stations around L.A.

Bill

Hydrogen is the worst possible fuel for automotive use.  It has high density per unit mass, which makes is a great fuel for a rocket, but have very low energy density per unit volume, even when compressed, which makes it an abysmal choice for an automotive fuel.  Plus, it performs incredibly poorly in an ICE engine - BMW gave up on that idea a long time ago, after being the primary champions of it for a few years.  And then there's the minor detail of the fact that for all intents and purposes, it doesn't exist in molecular form on planet earth.  99% of it is tied up as water (H2O), or hydrocarbons.  The vast majority of hydrogen is produced by hydrolyzing natural gas which gives off as a byproduct, you guessed it, CO2.  You might as well just burn the natural gas in your engine.  Hydrogen seems alluring because it only gives off H2O as a byproduct when burned or used in a fuel cell, but its mountain of problems outlined above is why it hasn't seen the light of day in anything resembling volume applications, and never will.

 

I agree that BEV's have many problems as well, which is why they are meeting a lot of resistance in the marketplace.  Not sure what the answer is.  My personal opinion is that the world will continue to warm, and mankind will do what it has always done - we will learn to adapt to this unfortunate situation until we come up with some sort of as yet undiscovered breakthrough, possibly some sort of geoengineering approach.

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[ds968]

Many manufacturers indicated they will continue to produce mostly hybrids ( and moving to smaller engines as well ) for the foreseeable future .  Some who already announced a year or two ago that they will become solely EV before 2030, have already abandoned that plan.   Toyota is leading the parade on hybrids, and that seems to be gathering momentum with many of the major producers .    


 

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[ds968]

Hydrogen is the worst possible fuel for automotive use.  It has high density per unit mass, which makes is a great fuel for a rocket, but have very low energy density per unit volume, even when compressed, which makes it an abysmal choice for an automotive fuel.  Plus, it performs incredibly poorly in an ICE engine - BMW gave up on that idea a long time ago, after being the primary champions of it for a few years.  And then there's the minor detail of the fact that for all intents and purposes, it doesn't exist in molecular form on planet earth.  99% of it is tied up as water (H2O), or hydrocarbons.  The vast majority of hydrogen is produced by hydrolyzing natural gas which gives off as a byproduct, you guessed it, CO2.  You might as well just burn the natural gas in your engine.  Hydrogen seems alluring because it only gives off H2O as a byproduct when burned or used in a fuel cell, but its mountain of problems outlined above is why it hasn't seen the light of day in anything resembling volume applications, and never will.

 

I agree that BEV's have many problems as well, which is why they are meeting a lot of resistance in the marketplace.  Not sure what the answer is.  My personal opinion is that the world will continue to warm, and mankind will do what it has always done - we will learn to adapt to this unfortunate situation until we come up with some sort of as yet undiscovered breakthrough, possibly some sort of geoengineering approach.

 


From the Maserati forum : a member from Switzerland posted this excerpt from this month’s issue of a major German automotive magazine ( Sport Auto ) , 

 

<b>Ferrari is focussing on hydrogen combustion engines.</b> In the meantime, the wind has changed at Ferrari, according to reports from the motorsport corner. Since 2023, Ferrari has been actively involved in negotiations for prototype regulations with hydrogen engines, which are to apply in LeMans from 2027. Internally, Ferrari has come to the realisation that it will not be possible to sell purebred two-seater sports cars without a mechanical heart in the medium term. In the event that the EU-wide ban on combustion engines actually comes into effect in 2035, Ferrari is now focussing on a hydrogen combustion engine. Ferrari has applied for patents for a spectacular hydrogen combustion engine. The hydrogen combustion engine is linked to a also very spectacular hybrid concept: energy is diverted from the front axle via brake recuperation, which drives two compressors that in turn charge the H2 combustion engine. This would allow Ferrari to kill two birds with one stone: they could possibly use an H2 combustion engine in LeMans in 2027, while at the same time offering a hypercar with the same concept for the road.  “ 

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[Inkedupfatboy]

I'd by this before an EV..

 

The trash and electric utility company trucks around here all run on propane.

They can't get plugs put in for EV's and people think they will have hydrogen stations? Don't think so....

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[Inkedupfatboy]

I read today that 4,000 cybertrucks were recalled - one guy washed his and it took a 5 hour reset protocol before it would run again and the manual says you can't wash it in direct sunlight....

Yea, I would pay $80K for that.....


Seriously...what is wrong with people...lol

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