[tejon007]

The bill was DOA.



However, if you still like cars with ICEs check out BMW. Go ahead and piss on it, but a 12 cylinder hydrogen powered car that sounds like a car should (not a golf cart), refuels in 3 to 5 minutes (either hydrogen or gasoline), uses conventional fuel when hydrogen isn't available, German engineering, etc., etc. You can drive around using gasoline/petrol and when you have an environmentalist on board, run in pure hydrogen mode and only emit water as exhaust...



https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/usa/artic...owered-car



https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_continu...=emb_title
Well, there is that Hindenburg thing...might put a few people off.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[Cloud9...68]

Hydrogen in NOT the answer.  98% of hydrogen comes from reforming natural gas, which creates, you guessed it, CO2 as a byproduct, so you might as well burn the natural gas in your car.  The other way to produce hydrogen is through electrolysis of water, which requires vast amounts of electricity, so again, you might as well use that same electricity to charge a battery in a BEV.  Hydrogen will never fly as an automotive fuel. 

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[Kim]

the answer, my friends, is blowin' in the wind.

 

We can discuss, debate, argue, defend, offend.  But we are likely all to old to really suffer any consequences.  Kids and grandkids, however, well that's another story. When the time comes there will simply be no further argument. 

 

I have a hybrid and an electric.  For me, I think that I'm doing all that I can to be helpful.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[lbpesq]

I do like my Highlander Hybrid, but the real solution is the most environmentally friendly car ever produced.  

Thank you, Mr. Flintstone.

 

”Let’s ride with the family down the street, through the courtesy of Fred’s two feet”

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[Cloud9...68]

the answer, my friends, is blowin' in the wind.

 

We can discuss, debate, argue, defend, offend.  But we are likely all to old to really suffer any consequences.  Kids and grandkids, however, well that's another story. When the time comes there will simply be no further argument. 

 

I have a hybrid and an electric.  For me, I think that I'm doing all that I can to be helpful.

Well said, Kim.  Nobody really knows how much time we have if we keep burning fossil fuels at our current rate before we start seeing some real dire consequences.  More than likely, as you say, our generation won't suffer much, if at all.  We just had our first grandchild in July, though, and that really changes one's perspective on things.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[tejon007]

The other way to produce hydrogen is through electrolysis of water, which requires vast amounts of electricity, so again, you might as well use that same electricity to charge a battery in a BEV.   

Not if you want the experience of driving a car with an ICE instead of an electric golf cart motor (say a 12 cylinder BMW?).



Not if you value your time. A few minutes to refuel vs. how long to charge?



So we're to suppose it's impossible to make hydrogen with electricity from renewble sources? Or how about fueling with Porsche's eFuel.



But, you're right, it'll never work...

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[Kim]

"Not if you value your time. A few minutes to refuel vs. how long to charge?"

 

I charge at night, at home. The time is irrelevant. I plug in about 8-9 pm and I am done by 5 am when I get up to go to work.  If, occasionally, I need to "fill up" on the way I can.  If I do, I don't necessarily "fill "er up", I just add enough to get me back home. 10-15 minutes is generally enough. A squirt and a coffee.

​And, yes, a long trip might be more challenging. One can only drink so much coffee and squirt so much . :glare: But I don't really go only many long trips although I do drive 300-350 km/day.  If I were to bet I would say they most people who use charging time as a reason to not own an EV don't drive so far on any regular basis that they really couldn't do all (or practically all) of their charging at home. But, then again, most statistics are thought to be made up anyway. 

 

Right now I do it because it suits my needs.  I don't need to change gears, listen for exhaust noises, or have a garage so I can get under the car and get jiggy with it. Others don't do it for similar reasons.  One day, however, we (or our progeny) will be driving non ICE cars because there is no choice. The concerns of today with EVs (charging networks, time, etc, etc) will be resolved by necessity. The "sound of music" will be replaced with the "sounds of silence".

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[ds968]

I don’t know about you guys , but I’d have to be at least 90 years old, and deaf, before I’d give up the sound of music ( engine and exhaust sound ) to the sound of silence ..  for me, that visceral component is half of the driving experience .   Maybe if they made EVs with manual transmissions it may mitigate the boredom of driving one a little bit ..  

 

For my other car ( the Maserati GTs ) , the exhaust note was easily 75 %  of my decision to purchase it .

 Electric cars have ZERO soul, IMO, and should be driven no more than 10 minutes to a nearby grocery store or similar errand.   But hey, for those who love a phenomenally fast golf cart, more power to you !   

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[Cloud9...68]

Not if you want the experience of driving a car with an ICE instead of an electric golf cart motor (say a 12 cylinder BMW?).



Not if you value your time. A few minutes to refuel vs. how long to charge?



So we're to suppose it's impossible to make hydrogen with electricity from renewble sources? Or how about fueling with Porsche's eFuel.



But, you're right, it'll never work...

Um, with all due respect, did you watch the video in your link?  While the hydrogen-powered BMW V12 was an impressive engineering endeavor, its results were borderline comical.  On gas power, the car did 0-60 in 5.4s, and on H2, it was 9.5s.  A Prius would leave it in the dust.  And its range rivaled a first generation Leaf's.  Also, if you check the date on the article you linked, it was 2000.  BMW abandoned the concept of running hydrogen in an internal combustion engine years ago for obvious reasons (well covered in the video), and is now focusing what little hydrogen research they're still doing on fuel cells.  To my knowledge, nobody is looking at burning hydrogen in an internal combustion engine - it's just terribly suited for that for many reasons.  

 

However, while EV's are almost certainly the future, there's no way gas-powered cars are going away anytime soon - I'm sure they'll be around for many decades, although at some point, finding fuel for them is going to start to become challenging, relegating them mainly to weekend "pleasure" use, but that seems like a reasonable situation to me.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[tejon007]

Yes, our Prius would leave it in the dust. But that wasn't the entire point of a car powered by a hydrogen ICE. Some might like the idea and sound of a 12 cylinder ICE when everyone else is driving around powered by an oversized golf cart motor.



I did watch the video...that's why I said it would never work & as you point out, probably why BMW abandoned it. But, for some of us driving a car with an ICE (either gasoline, eFeul or hydrogen) still has a strong appeal. Some of us also prefer to drive a car vs. just point it (we prefer manual transmissions).



Yes, not practical. But, maybe driving a 30 year old (or older) Porsche isn't so practical either? Nothing against EVs. In fact, our next car will probably be an EV. It's more of a nostalgic thing and the hot rodder inside because that's probably going away too...

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[Cloud9...68]

Fair enough - I thought you were arguing in favor of hydrogen as a viable automotive fuel.  But I don't think those of us who appreciate the virtues of internal combustion have too much to worry about.  BEVs will eventually take over as daily transportation, but ICE's will be around a long time for nostalgic purposes, powered by gasoline, just like people still ride horses for fun. 

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[ds968]

This semi-comical “rant”  runs for ten minutes, but every minutes is more entertaining the previous one ..

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6Cxwdee3LY

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[Waylander]

I personally dont dislike evs but there is no way it can be sustained

Just not enough raw materials on the planet, I am really impressed with Porsches synthetic fuel, they are going to be using it in the Carrera Cup next year



Be great if it can be used in our old bangers, we got over the move to unleaded after all

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[lbpesq]

I’m traveling to the East coast later this month for my mom’s 98th birthday.   I rented a Tesla from Hertz just to try it out.  If nothing else, I’ll be able to avoid the last minute fill up at the gas station near the airport when I return it.

 

Bill

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[Waylander]

Might be the last 40 minute charge

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[ds968]

I’m traveling to the East coast later this month for my mom’s 98th birthday.   I rented a Tesla from Hertz just to try it out.  If nothing else, I’ll be able to avoid the last minute fill up at the gas station near the airport when I return it.

 

Bill

Yes, but keep in mind they’ll charge ( no pun intended )  for the difference between pick up and drop off %.   That said , it should be cheaper than the fill up surcharge , which IIRC ,  was about + 75% above the average per gallon price . 

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[dlearl476]

Posted on the Speedster (Replica) Owners Group forum:

   

https://carbuzz.com/news/mini-electric-p...d-interior

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[ds968]

Pretty good use for a Tesla Plaid 

 

https://autos.yahoo.com/youtuber-cuts-te...soc_trk=ma

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[Kim]

Those of you who have interest in electric cars might like these data. They are from my Mustang Mach-E.

 

This chart shows km driven (as per the odometer) by month, km added to car (from charge records, by month) and the ratio between them.

 

You can see that in winter, when the heat is on, only about 65% of the km added to the car are used for driving - the other 35% is loss due to running the electric heat, window defrost and heated seats as well as battery losses.  In summer, with these things off, regeneration actually allows the car to "use" more power than is added - up to 5% more.  It also shows that using the A/C has a negligible impact on power consumption.

 

km actually driven           km added to car                driven/added

                                                                                                                               

Jan-23   4,996                     5,874                     75.96%                                 

Feb-23  1,720                     2,506                     64.73%                                 

Mar-23 4,880                     5,671                     80.83%                                 

Apr-23  7,039                     6,893                     89.42%                                 

May-23 3,140                     3,267                     90.78%                                 

Jun-23   3,312                     3,479                     93.51%                                 

Jul-23    8,130                     7,748                     102.07%                                              

Aug-23  5,666                     4,954                     105.12%

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[Inkedupfatboy]

Once they force everyone to buy an EV, then they will say they can't make batteries anymore and then force everyone to buy and ride a bicycle.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.