[Waylander]

Your are correct

UK no more ICE car to be sold from 2030, also no more gas house heating appliances / Boilers

We are being forced to buy extremely expensive heat pumps

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[Cloud9...68]

The challenging thing about our collective response to climate change is that we've fighting an invisible enemy, and the outcome of the fight is highly uncertain.  If the city we lived in were being bombed by an adversary who clearly communicated their intentions to wipe us all out, we'd think nothing about making whatever sacrifices were necessary to protect ourselves, our families, and our neighbors - no measure would be considered excessive or extreme.  With climate change, the consequences of our individual actions are invisible, and possibly far in the future, and there's even the small possibility that all the models are wrong, and all these measures being forced upon us are nothing more than offensive violations of our rights.  But if some of the more extreme predictions are correct, measures which seem extreme today will be looked back upon as woefully inadequate as the data becomes more clear, at which point it will be too late.  The problem is that there are smart people on both sides of the argument, and there's no way of knowing from our current vantage point who's right.

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[lbpesq]

The challenging thing about our collective response to climate change is that we've fighting an invisible enemy, and the outcome of the fight is highly uncertain.  If the city we lived in were being bombed by an adversary who clearly communicated their intentions to wipe us all out, we'd think nothing about making whatever sacrifices were necessary to protect ourselves, our families, and our neighbors - no measure would be considered excessive or extreme. 

If an adversary clearly communicated their intention to wipe out everyone in an American city, half the inhabitants would do nothing other than exclaiming it was all a conspiracy to steal the mayoral election.

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[Cloud9...68]

If an adversary clearly communicated their intention to wipe out everyone in an American city, half the inhabitants would do nothing other than exclaiming it was all a conspiracy to steal the mayoral election.

So funny, so sad, but so true.  I'm continually scratching my head over how we've gotten to this point.

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[Waylander]

I personnally think EV cars are good for everyone, except the consumer

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[Cloud9...68]

Other than the high cost (and the price of ICE cars are also rising rapidly), electric cars actually meet the needs of many, if not most, consumers with no major issues.  If you're a homeowner who can install a charger, I don't see how having an electric car is any less convenient than a gas powered car.  My brother and daughter both have Tesla's, and both love them.  But they don't yet work for everybody;  apartment dwellers in particular probably struggle to keep them charged, and they must still be a pain to take on long trips, although that seems to be getting better.  I have no doubt the remaining issues will be resolved in a reasonable amount of time.  But that again doesn't mean everybody has to buy one - I'm sure the planet can handle the dwindling number of petrol-powered car enthusiasts to continue indulging our passion for internal combustion.

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[ds968]

With a home charger and if you use the EV for commute distances which do not require additional charging ( outside of the one at  home ), and you can afford the car , I can see why some people would find that appealing .   No appeal to me whatsoever, but I have friends who have EVs, in addition to their regular ICE cars, and they all said they had trepidations buying the EV, but that it grew on them almost instantly and now they can’t imagine being without one.  

And they’re still “friends” but they’re pushing their luck to stay in my good graces buying and driving those abominations ..  :glare: 

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[Waylander]

I just cant afford one at best 40% more expensive than a ICE car,

In the UK its also no hybrids from 2030, and our mayor of London is pushing out the ULEZ charging zone to 2,599 square miles

That covers nearly 17 million who will have to buy electric or pay $20 a day to go to work



If you own a car older than 2016, you will have to buy a new car



This kind of draconian legislation before we have any kind of infrastructure is madness, we only have 4 public charging points within 3 miles in any direction from my home, my shared car park is 40 yards away, and the authorities have told us we will be fined if we have a charging cable crossing a public footpath



All this really encourages the move to EV



Space, access and these thing are a major problem in the UK we just dont have the same kind of space

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[Cloud9...68]

What you're describing IS madness.  Do you think your new Prime Minister will be supportive of this legislation?  Are there rebates for the purchase of new EV's in the package?  It's hard to believe the U.S., which seems to be lagging farther and farther behind most of the rest of the industrialized world in large-scale tech infrastructure, is so far ahead of the U.K. in EV preparedness.  A few years ago, a long trip in an EV in the U.S. would have been unthinkable, but I'm hearing more and more reports of cross-country treks (in Tesla's with their network of "superchargers", anyway) with the fairly minor inconvenience of the need to stop to charge for about 30 minutes every 200 miles or so.  Still not as convenient as an ICE car, but it's very early days for EV technology.  I know more and more companies in the U.S. (mine included, for nearly a decade now) have chargers at their facilities, which would take care of the issues for people who can't install a charger where they live.

 

Something's got to give.  We can't keep pumping billions of tons of CO2 a year into the atmosphere and expect any kind of quality of life in the coming decades.  But we also can't mandate changes that society isn't ready for.

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[Waylander]

Just have a Google about the London ULEZ and our lunatic mayor Sadiq Khan



If you dont know London, there are two routes around the major parts, north circular and south circular, these do not look like any kind of major highway they are roads that have been joined into a route over the last 300 years or so



This is currently the boundary for the $20 a day ULEZ (ultra low emission zone), it is currently proposed that from October 2023 this zone will increase to within the M25, the M25 circles London and its interior space is 2,599 square miles



To drive anywhere in that, in a car, van, lorry, motorcycle that does not comply to the regulations will cost $20 even if you live there, every single day, 7 days a week 24 hours a day



There are no subsidies to move to electric no incentive other than to not pay the charge, you also have to remember that most of this is Victorian in date and most homes do not have a drive way, its on street parking which is also charged for by the local authorities

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[Cloud9...68]

That sounds like a nightmare.  What's the prevailing collective mood of the residents of London concerning this?  I'm sure that calling it a divisive issue would be quite the understatement!

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[Waylander]

Most want to remove the mayor from office and make a few changes

Thats the polite way of putting it

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[ds968]

Most want to remove the mayor from office and make a few changes

Thats the polite way of putting it

Even Capt’n Kirk hates him

 

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EnsUeR2MyI

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[Cloud9...68]

Getting away from internal combustion doesn’t necessarily mean EVs.  What about the future of hydrogen powered vehicles?

A good, well-balanced article on hydrogen as a fuel.  I found the part from 9:40 on to be particularly on point.

 

(144) The truth about hydrogen - YouTube

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[Waylander]

i iforgot to add, if you want to live in london its possibly a bit like LA, one bed flat / apartment in one of the posh new buildings 1.75 million dollars, and nowhere to park and charge your car

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[tejon007]

An article pointing out why going solely into electric vehicle production is not workable (a mere 60% of some battery material components will be available to meet demand imposed on us by the government), not efficient, nor viable - at least to Toyota, the grandaddy of hybrid vehicle production. Enjoy:



https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companie...r-AA11M7La

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[Cloud9...68]

Toyota makes some good points about the lack of sufficient infrastructure in all parts of the world to go 100% electric everywhere, so their continuing to offer hybrids makes some sense, as long as it's just a bridge to all-electric.  But they lose a lot of credibility when they say they are continuing to pursue hydrogen fueled vehicles as an option, as this is the height of stupidity.  I can't image a fuel more poorly suited to powering personal vehicles than hydrogen.

 

But no matter what, we can't put our heads in the sand and just keep burning fossil fuels to power our vehicles if we expect to have any sort of standard of living in the coming decades (sheesh, I sound like Flash).  I'm afraid it's too late to turn back the tide of climate change through just converting to renewable energy sources.  I expect that some sort of fairly radical geoengineering will have to be a big part of the solution.  Hopefully the side effects of this won't be too severe.

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[ds968]

Watch your Teslas boys and girls .. ( and other e-cars )  they even ignite on their own , but it seems salt water an those batteries don’t mix very well ; four Teslas in Florida affected by flooding from hurricane Ian, caught fire .  

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[Cloud9...68]

Watch your Teslas boys and girls .. ( and other e-cars )  they even ignite on their own , but it seems salt water an those batteries don’t mix very well ; four Teslas in Florida affected by flooding from hurricane Ian, caught fire .  

Another advantage of electric cars!  We all know that any car, ICE or electric, is ruined after being flooded, but with ICE cars, the damage is often hard to detect, leaving them open for resale by unscrupulous sellers to unsuspecting buyers.  With a BEV, you get the feature of it going up in flames, protecting the used car buying public from this scam.  B)

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[ds968]

If the news is reporting this story accurately, Wyoming has introduced a bill ( which appears to have unanimous support in their state legislature ) to ban the sale of EVs there , and entirely phase out existing ones by 2025, with incentives for EV owners  to convert to gasoline cars  . 

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