[lbpesq]

Getting away from internal combustion doesn’t necessarily mean EVs.  What about the future of hydrogen powered vehicles?

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[Cloud9...68]

Hydrogen - ugh. I can't image a fuel more poorly suited to automotive use than hydrogen.  Where do I begin?  For starters, there's the little detail that hydrogen doesn't exist in molecular form on planet earth.  It's either tied up with carbon in organic compounds, or with oxygen as water.  Extracting it from either is a nightmare.  The vast majority of hydrogen is synthesized from natural gas, which releases as a byproduct - you guessed it - CO2.  We might as well just go ahead and burn the natural gas to power the car, from a climate change impact perspective.

 

Second, while hydrogen has extremely high energy density per unit mass, it has horrible energy density by volume.  This makes it a great fuel for a rocket, but an abysmal choice for powering a car.  The only way to get any kind of range out of a hydrogen-powered land vehicle is as a hybrid, which means you have to lug around a heavy and expensive battery pack in addition to the exotic (and prohibitive expense) fuel cell to generate the electricity from the hydrogen fuel.  So you're basically driving a high-six figure science lab to pick up your eggs at the supermarket.  The fact the hydrogen is even in the conversation as an alternative to fossil fuels absolutely boggles my mind.

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[ds968]

   

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[Inkedupfatboy]

N

 

I welcome your opinion. We should be able to express our opinions here as long as they stay within the bounds of decency.

No one has ever accused me of being decent - lol

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[ds968]

And furthermore, "decency" is subjective terminology       :lol:   

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[Waylander]

I viewed a invoice posted on Facebook yesterday for a battery replacement in a Chevy volt, 28,000 dollars



Yes these cars are better for the planet no denying it, but I cant afford a Mach-e, or the lease of one



The disparity in cost is almost 50% more for some cars here,

My car does 600 miles on 52litres of fuel, my mate who owns a Tesla was charged £44 for a 200 mile fast charge in a motorway service station



For the average person the numbers do not add up



But I wholeheartedly agree we need to change but I still feel we are running before we can walk, and me personally cant have an a ev

I cant charge it, my home is 50 yards from the car park, the nearest public charger is 1.5 miles away



The ideas are sound but the logistics just dont function, in the uk

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[lbpesq]

Let’s ride with the family down the street

Through the courtesy of Fred’s two feet

 

Economical and saves the environment!

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[Cloud9...68]

No doubt the move away from fossil fuels is going to be painful - they have so much going for them, after all - plentiful, convenient, easily transportable, loaded to the gills with energy content, etc.  It's no wonder they've been so widely adopted.  But I'm hopeful that mankind's ingenuity will carry the day.  When the Denver airport opened in 1995, it was the first fully automated, software controlled airport in the US.  And it was a complete catastrophe - everything conceivable went wrong.  But over time, the problems were all resolved, and it would be unthinkable to run an airport today without the automation pioneered by DIA.  Hopefully more planet-friendly transportation will follow the same trajectory.  It is very disappointing that the predictions of falling prices of EV's by now hasn't come close to materializing - the cost of lithium, cobalt, and nickel have exploded, plus the dealers have been even greedier than usual with regard to markups on EVs, probably because of the extreme shortage of inventory. 

 

I think California's plan to phase out the sale of new ICE cars by 2035 is pretty sound policy.  It's nearly 13 years away, after all, which should be enough time to get the infrastructure issues worked out.  And California isn't alone - I believe there are something like nine other states considering similar legislation.  

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[ds968]

I think a few countries in Europe are already ahead of California in the timeline / deadline  to “electrification” of new car sales.   I recall reading that a couple of years ago , but maybe I misread ., 

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[Cloud9...68]

I believe that's correct.  But none of this means anybody's gas-powered car is going to be confiscated, or that those who choose to can't keep driving their ICE-powered cars.  Heck, even in California, you could buy a shiny new 2034, and if you keep it well maintained, drive it well into the mid 2050's, which I suspect is plenty for most of us here   . 

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[lbpesq]

I wonder if the ban on new ICE vehicles will also bar 2035 cars from other states?  That could bring up constitutional issues regarding freedom of interstate travel.   And what about buying a 2035 ICE car in Nevada and then titling it California?  Lots of issues.

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[Rap]

It was reported last night that Ca. Is asking its residents not to charge their EV’s this weekend because of anticipated grid problems. If this is true it certainly is an interesting development. Does anyone remember the70’s when gas was available on different days?

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[lbpesq]

My roommate and I used to swap license plates (one of us had an “even” plate, and the other an “odd” plate) so we could buy gas on the “wrong” day.   Still, the lines at the pumps sucked.   Glad I won’t need to charge my hybrid this weekend!

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[tejon007]

There are other ways to get to carbon neutral than forcing consumers to buy new EVs.



https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a39643...al-e-fuel/



What if I want to drive a hydrogen powered car? Or my classic Porsche or a new 911 Carrera GTS, but use e-fuel? California doesn't seem to care about being carbon neutral...they just want to push new EVs on everyone.



It reminds one of the CARB in California where you can have a clean burning classic car that doesn't pollute, yet still fail an "emissions" test. CARB didn't care what actually exited the tailpipes of cars, just whether it had the original induction and original equipment still on it. In other words, you couldn't improve your car's emissions and still pass a smog test. Happened to me in 1994 when we couldn't register a classic Porsche that had a rebuilt motor, but California would not register it because the PO had converted it to carburetion. They wouldn't even test its emissions even with a test from Arizona that showed very low emissions. I also have a low production car that if the catylitic converter dies, I won't be able to license in California because OEM catylitic converters are NLA...



Rant over with...for now.

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[ds968]

I could be wrong, but I believe Ca will approve an exemption from emissions testing if you can prove that as a result of either an NLA part or a prohibitively expensive fix for a car which is fairly rare and thus almost irreplaceable, you are left without a reasonable / feasible option .

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[tejon007]

Yes, you could be wrong.



Aftermarket Parts - All non-OEM configurations or aftermarket components installed on the recipient vehicle or donor

engine must adhere to BARs Aftermarket Parts Verification Guidelines located in the Smog Check Reference Guide,

Appendix G https://www.bar.ca.gov/pdf/Smog_Check_Re..._Guide.pdf. CARBs list of approved aftermarket parts

with Executive Orders (EOs) can be found at https://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermkt/d...mquery.php



For a low production volume vehicle, no aftermarket company will go through CARB's testing and qualifying process...just no money in it.



You can arrange an appointment with a referee, grovel some (maybe a lot), and get denied. Been there, done that. Maybe you find a referee that's having a good day and feeling generous?

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[tejon007]

But, that really wasn't my point...



My point was that CARB doesn't care about what emissions your car is actually emitting.



They look at your car and if it has an aftermarket part on it, you fail before they even test your emissions. Even if your car is now "polluting " less.

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[ds968]

Not entirely true ; for example, the D1R supercharger has been CARB certified, and Bob produced only 62 units .  But yes it’s an expensive process and since catalytic converters don’t fail very frequently there may not be an appealing market prospect in building those, for what may be an extremely limited demand.  

And as for CARB not allowing even testing of cars if aftermarket parts which could affect emissions are detected on them , I refer again  to the above noted SC set up …All that smog testing stations need to see is the carb sticker number, and once that’s registered in the Ca DMV database with your car’s VIN, there is no need to do anything else for any of the flowing tests .   

 

I recall reading here that a handful of people were questioned by smog testing places about cat-back systems on their 968, and had to explain to the testers it had no effect on emissions, but none received any push back or refusal to have the test performed after conveying that.  (   I was never asked anything about my BB cat-back at any of the tests  ( that was several years before the SC install  ) , but once the SC went in, at the first emissions testing the technician was scratching his head at the sight of it, unsure where to go ahead with the test of not …until I pointed him to the CARB sticker inside the  hood.  All went seamlessly after that .. 

 

And on a separate but related note, a friend of mine ( who is a very apt mechanic )  with two 968s is converting one of them to a full electric car .   It’ll be interesting to see how that goes ..he said he’s by no stretch the first to do that , there’s much precedent for those conversions ..but it may be the first “ 968 E “ 

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[tejon007]

"For a low production volume vehicle, no aftermarket company will go through CARB's testing and qualifying process...just no money in it."



OK, I was wrong & I apologize...one aftermarket company would go through CARB'S testing and qualifying process.



However, my point was simply that if there isn't a CARB approved emission part, what do you do? Bob's supercharger isn't relevant to my rant...his supercharger has a CARB number.



So, how many widows & orphans are left in California because some low production vehicle (manufactured after 1975) has a worn out piece of obsolete NLA emission equipment? How many Bobs are there for these classic car owners?



What do 968 owners do when their catylitic converter dies or is stolen? Last time I looked you can't get one...

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[tejon007]

EV conversion in California is fairly simple and a whole lot easier than converting to use an alternative fuel (no matter if it's less polluting or more environmentally "friendly").



Electric vehicle conversions must meet the following:

1. Vehicles conve1ted to 100% electric drive, with power supplied exclusively by on-board batteries, are considered in

compliance with the engine change requirements provided:

a. All fuel system components are removed prior to inspection, including the fuel tank, lines and evaporative system

b. No fuel-fired heater is installed on the vehicle

2. None ofthe requirements (1-9) listed below for "All model year vehicles" apply to electric vehicle conversions

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