[rustech]

Bob, I can't even imagine there being much more than 5 degrees of adjustment (ok, so there are 15, 7.5 in each direction if you set it in the middle <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/wink.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> ) on the sprocket which your car must have been off for the longest time without you feeling a difference. Mine has been set back exactly the way it was before I did all of my work and if feels perfectly fine (aka perfect). Heck, I'm going to try advancing mine more just to see if I can pull a little more power out of it. By not having the timing perfect with the sprocket, there is no risk of interference between pistons and valves, just set it back the way the factory initially timed it, then drive to the shop to get it perfect if you so choose.



BTW, to R/R the valve cover is a piece of cake and can be done extremely fast. Even with having to remove it and reinstall it again, it still only adds 2-3% work to the job. To me it's not worth paying for the 95% to accomplish the 5% at the shop. Bob would pay just to not get his hands dirty.

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[flash]

that reminds me, i need to stop buy and buy another couple of boxes of latex gloves

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[Mark]

<img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/ohmy.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[mefforddk]

[quote name='rustech' post='35931' date='May 24 2007, 08:36 AM']Bob, I can't even imagine there being much more than 5 degrees of adjustment (ok, so there are 15, 7.5 in each direction if you set it in the middle <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/wink.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> ) on the sprocket which your car must have been off for the longest time without you feeling a difference. Mine has been set back exactly the way it was before I did all of my work and if feels perfectly fine (aka perfect). Heck, I'm going to try advancing mine more just to see if I can pull a little more power out of it. By not having the timing perfect with the sprocket, there is no risk of interference between pistons and valves, just set it back the way the factory initially timed it, then drive to the shop to get it perfect if you so choose.



BTW, to R/R the valve cover is a piece of cake and can be done extremely fast. Even with having to remove it and reinstall it again, it still only adds 2-3% work to the job. To me it's not worth paying for the 95% to accomplish the 5% at the shop. Bob would pay just to not get his hands dirty.[/quote]



In one of the PM manuals there is a "shop tool" that can be cut out and used to measure the cam angles using a profile fo both cams. I used it t time my DOHC twice.

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[flash]

that gets you close, certainly close enough to run - that is how most shops do it too



but, having seen how touchy it is, dual dial indicators are a must - no other way to measure how much the valve is supposed to be open when you go to lock it down - also no other way to really determine TDC - there is more to it than that too, but those are big ones



mine was done by the factory, and off - looked right though - much better now

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[rustech]

[quote name='flash' post='35935' date='May 24 2007, 10:09 AM']that reminds me, i need to stop buy and buy another couple of boxes of latex gloves[/quote]



Why so many Bob? Five condoms for the price of one? <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/rolleyes.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />



Personally I prefer the nitriles. They don't tear so easy...less chance for pregnancy.

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[mefforddk]

[quote name='flash' post='35967' date='May 24 2007, 11:02 PM']that gets you close, certainly close enough to run - that is how most shops do it too



but, having seen how touchy it is, dual dial indicators are a must - no other way to measure how much the valve is supposed to be open when you go to lock it down - also no other way to really determine TDC - there is more to it than that too, but those are big ones



mine was done by the factory, and off - looked right though - much better now[/quote]



so can you tell the difference between the timing set by the factory and with the dial indicators?

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[flash]

yup -



to give you an idea of the difference, as a result of my recent oil hose mishap, i purged the system, put in new redline oil, disconnected the coil and pulled the plugs so that i could prime the system



since in had the plugs out, i figured i would change them to fresh ones - also, as long as they were out i figured i would go ahead and do a compression check



my readings went UP over the last test by about 4% - i am now hovering at about 200 across the board



some might immediately jump to the oil change as the cause - however, i went to a LIGHTER oil, and there really wasn't a chance for it to seat on the rings anyway



it seems that the timing and overlap of the valves is quickly affected by slight timing adjustments - more compression equals more power - doing fast math, that 4% represents 9.6hp - it's funny, because i said it felt like maybe 7-8 - looks like my buttometer is pretty well calibrated - i haven't tested it yet to confirm any of that, but it is noticeable



i am looking forward to driving the car now - the added power of the timing adjustment was cool, but, according to redline, the new lighter oil should help too, as well as drop the oil temps a bit

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[Cloud9...68]

Which weight of oil did you go with? I know this must by my imagination, but I switched from Mobil1 15W50 to Redline 15W50 (so same weight, just different, and possibly "better" oil) shortly before my last DE in April, and the car seemed a little livelier. I know 99% of it must be the steep learning curve I'm on with respect to the improvement in my driving skill, but the car seemed to pull up the hills of the track a bit more aggressively, and I haven't done any other mods. Again, I'm sure it's my imagination, but I didn't go to the event expecting any additional poweer, it was just something that struck me as I was out there, and I know I don't have the best butt-ometer in the world...

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[flash]

i went with 10/40 - i spoke to redline, and they said the temps don't get high enough to run 15/50 - i was only hitting 240 on the track and the rest of the time about 205 - they want 225 most of the time for the 15/50 - they said that unless i was trying to take up high gap tolerance bearings, that i should not use the 15/50, and that the 10/40 was better at heat transfer, and i would also see a gain in power from the reduced resistance - they also steered me clear of the race oils



this was something i wrestled with for a while - i am so old that i come from the school of heavy is good - heavier is better - too heavy is just right - but, these new oils are really something, and have a lot better capabilities than the old ones



we'll see how it goes

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[mefforddk]

[quote name='flash' post='36027' date='May 26 2007, 10:29 AM']yup -



to give you an idea of the difference, as a result of my recent oil hose mishap, i purged the system, put in new redline oil, disconnected the coil and pulled the plugs so that i could prime the system



since in had the plugs out, i figured i would change them to fresh ones - also, as long as they were out i figured i would go ahead and do a compression check



my readings went UP over the last test by about 4% - i am now hovering at about 200 across the board



some might immediately jump to the oil change as the cause - however, i went to a LIGHTER oil, and there really wasn't a chance for it to seat on the rings anyway



it seems that the timing and overlap of the valves is quickly affected by slight timing adjustments - more compression equals more power - doing fast math, that 4% represents 9.6hp - it's funny, because i said it felt like maybe 7-8 - looks like my buttometer is pretty well calibrated - i haven't tested it yet to confirm any of that, but it is noticeable



i am looking forward to driving the car now - the added power of the timing adjustment was cool, but, according to redline, the new lighter oil should help too, as well as drop the oil temps a bit[/quote]



So what was the cost to having the timing dialed in using indicators and who did the work?

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[flash]

pete did mine - not sure who else is qualified or set up to do it - i'd call pete and see what he says



it took about an hour and a half, so there is your cost estimate

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[mefforddk]

[quote name='flash' post='36102' date='May 28 2007, 07:17 PM']pete did mine - not sure who else is qualified or set up to do it - i'd call pete and see what he says



it took about an hour and a half, so there is your cost estimate[/quote]



I have been out of town on/off since January. Just got my car on the road today. Let's see new rod bearings, rings, head re-work to include new valve springs, front struts, rear shocks, new sway bar bushings. New rotors and pads are next. I still have to finish putting the timing covers on and the belts, but so far the car runs good.

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[cdtscout]

Well...a quick update. Just in from a solid evening of work pulling the cylinder head off my 968....what fun! I actually mean it! I am taking my time...taking a lot of reference picutres...and stuffing ziplocs big and small with a lot of parts. Next up...oil cooler....really easy to get to now that everything is off!

cdtscout

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[rustech]

Glad it's working out for you and you took the challenge. I too used a bunch of labeled ziplocs and dixie cups. Great way to keep those bolts in order. If you end up with any questions, ask and we'll do our best to help you out.

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