[Kiwichris]

Hi there.



well - thanks to all so far who have helped me with the new car; have now driven the car 1500 km home, changed oil, plugs, cleaned up rotor, scared myself by driving off with the handbrake on - neccessitating removal of both rear rotors for a check-up - I'm starting to deal with other things....

car is generally hard to start - will have to crank over 10-15 rotations to get her going, then fires up, rpms drop to 500 or so, then within a second resumes back to 900, and idles well - slight hunting, but no stumbling on acceleration or other rough running. Smell of fuel in engine bay after start up -not in cab. once hot will randomly start well, or again, be hard to start...



Having trawled the forum I see there's a host of possible reasons for this - will go through a list and see if anyone can add any ideas



1 - Change DME Relay - (one on order) - but can smell fuel in engine bay, so presume pump is working



2 - change fuel filter - as above



3 - check for loose vacumn tubes - / leaks - (change HCV???) - interesting note - cab heater is very weak - far less so than I would expect for the amount of heat generated by a 3.0 l engine cooling sustem - so poss a prob here...? Coolent was changed with replacement of cambelt 2 weeks ago when I bought car - so poss air-lock in heating system????



4 - put on new rotor-cap ( old ones look "ok" - not mint, but not cracked or with signs of tracking around cap)



5 - CLean MAF sensor (will do!)



So - anything else anyone can add to the "to do" list??



will post some pics of car soon



Cheers



Chris

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[DaveN]

I can chime in on the heater possibly. One has to make sure the heater is set to full blast when bleeding otherwise you will have air in the heater core and that will move to the cooling system.

DME is always the first suspicion but if you have unburnt gas smell when the car starts that indicates the car is not ready to fire until a condition is satisfied. My guess would be cleaning the MAF and generally check for crispy connectors - i.e. Hall sensor on distributor.

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[flash]

when dave says "DME" i think he means the DME relay, which is what turns on the fuel pump and the DME, and is known to fail - however, it doesn't fail with the symptoms you describe



given that you have a fuel smell, i would tend to suspect leaky injector seals - however it could merely be that the engine is seeing a momentary over-rich condition due to a dirty MAF or something like that



absolutely clean the MAF first - use ONLY a cleaner specifically for the MAF (like CRC MAF cleaner) - no not restart the engine until the freshly cleaned MAF is fully dry

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[Cloud9...68]

Nobody said it yet, so I have the privilege - before you do anything else, do a blink test. It's free, and it could point you in a useful direction with your troubleshooting. Do a search - there is plenty of info here on how to do the test, and how to interpret the results. Good luck!

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[DaveN]

Sorry, rookie mistake : DME Relay

I shall sit in the corner now

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[flash]

lol - no worries - very common - just wanted to be clear so that he didn't start monkeying with the computer (the DME) and maybe mess something up

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[rl968]

The new DME's are much better than the old ones, solid state. My car had starting issues, replaced the DME with one from pelican, no issues.

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[flash]

lol - as i said above, you mean the DME relay, right? to my knowledge there are no DMEs that are any different than the original

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[rl968]

Yep, relay

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[flash]

yeah - i think that's the 993 part you are referring to - i can't remember the number now though - it does seem to be a better part for sure than the original



which reminds me - i need to order a back up

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[Kiwichris]

Hi all - and many thanks!



OK -will clean maf, check connections to all sensors, and have another "go-over" of the engine



Interestingly, I took the car into town - about 7 miles, and its been cold for the 1st time I've had the car - so I turned up the heater full blast -got back and noticed coolant level had dropped from max to 1/2 way between max and min - points to an non-bleed heater system - anyone got an idea of how much coolant the heater system holds?( will check workshoppdf )



The car has a 993 style DME Relay, but am getting a spare as they seem to be a 'lucky rabbits foot" talisman for the modern Porsche!



Car is ROW, so no check engine light ( no airbags either -early 92 model coupe) - is there any method of getting a readout blink test from ROW cars without having to buy a scanner?



Car also has a pretty old-looking air filter - gave it a bash and swapped ends on it - so that's another one for the list...



Cheers



Chris

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[rl968]

Here's the link the, it is a 993 part...



http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/smar...%2C%20Each

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[flash]

sweet!!!

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[Kiwichris]

Ok -have now cleaned out idle control valve, (solved variable idle) and cleaned MAF (no effect) - car still hard to start. Car starts well 1-5 mins after being turned off, but then takes 10 sec to start - and seems to feel like lack of fuel. Still waiting for DME and other part from the states, but can anyone tell me where a loss of fuel pressure would most likely be coming from? - injectors? - dirty fuel filter?



Any advice gratefully recieved



Chris in NZ



PS - pic of car enc - think the colour is Violet blue metallic- 92 colour...

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[rl968]

it's the DME relay, very common problem. You'll be fine once you pop the new one in.

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[Kiwichris]

fair enough - am at the end of a long supply chain here - waiting for parts from the US ( still - it's warm!)

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[Kiwichris]

Just an update on all above- STILL waiting for DMe relay and all spares from the US...car getting harder to start, and now have had an instance of a sudden drop in revs to 500 or less whilst sitting at the lights 5 mins after start...like a loss of fuel... - jabbed the throttle and "saved' it from stalling... So poss still DME, but I'm also thinking about injector seals as per flash - i see RS Barn have them, so will order in tandem with stage 1 chip.. Airbox mod is also on the list.



Cheers



Chris

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[DaveN]

While your waiting for your DME relay make up the 2 jumpers required to bypass the relay. That way if it does bag on you while your out you can jumper the fuel pump to permanently run and get you home. Do a search here as I'm no sure where the link is but it IS here.

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[Kim]

Might want to give some consideration to a failing head gasket that is letting coolant get into the combustion chamber, making it both hard to start and running a bit rough for a little bit until the coolant is gone. You might also small coolant (not gas) behind the car when you first start it.

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[Kiwichris]

Hello to all



Well - It's been a while since I last posted here - have been away, so came back to a box load of parts to fit, and have been spending the last week doing same



so- I still have a hard starting problem!



have done the following



Changed DME Relay



new air filter



new plugs, rotor, cap, leads



got battery reconditioned as it had sulphated whilst sitting still



have scanned the car with a Durametric - comes up with no error codes



Changed fuel filter - - OLD ONE VERY DIRTY!- black dirty fuel came out of boh the upstream and the downstream ends - this is a bit worrying - I've never seen dirt come out of the "out" end of a filter - poss it failed entirely?



So - still hard to start - have injectors on order, and will replace seals when I change same



So -car still starts beeter from cold than from warm - a couple of turns and it fires and runs well when cold, but when hot you have to pump the throttle to get it to fire whilst cranking....and then play with the throttle to stop the engine dying...



Other than that the car goes well!!!!



Any suggestions welcome.....





Cheers



Chris



where next? - fuel pump?????



Any help appreceated!

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