[mbardeen]

I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on the frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond words.

When I was a boy, we were taught to be discrete and respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly wise and impatient of restraint.

~Hesiod, Eighth Century B.C.



Common complaints about the "youth of today". Yet we still manage to persist -- the young are reckless and frivolous. The elders complain about them. The young that do make it to old age grow bitter and complain about the new youth and the cycle repeats.

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[Cloud9...68]

Yeah, I thought rock & roll was going to bring on the downfall of all civilization. At least that's what my dad believed...

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[flash]

lol - it actually might be a symptom of a larger problem. the "freedoms" that rock and roll brought with it are indicative of a larger willingness to give in to mental weakness.



but i do love my rock and roll, and have made it the center of my life. i just don't cave in to the weaknesses (lol - not anymore anyway)

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[lbpesq]

Love my rock 'n roll too. And there's no doubt I danced much better when I was a little under the influence - the whole inhibition thing.

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[Rap]

So Elaine thought too!!! Lol

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[94SilverCab]

Me too...

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[flash]

roflmao - yup - that about sums it up

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[Monstrous4Banger]

Yeah, cause cannabinoids, and alcohols are totally the same.

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[flash]

lol - they are with respect to the denial of the users, and their perception or lack thereof regarding the effects. users of both think they are "just fine". in reality, they aren't. i've said the same thing, and i know it wasn't true. i can usually spot somebody under the influence of either pretty easily. so can the police and many other trained professionals. the things that are of most concern (reflexes, cognitive ability, concentration, etc) are actually both affected very much the same with either substance at lower levels. the large differences between the two don't really show up until higher levels.

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[lbpesq]

Flash:



Can you cite any studies that support your claim that cannabis and alcohol affect humans in the same manner? Virtually all of the studies I've read have found significant differences in the effects of these two substances.



There is also another major difference: alcohol is a poison - it can kill you, both quickly and slowly, depending on dosage. Cannabis is one of the safest substances known to mankind. It is non-toxic. 1100-1500 people a year in this country die from aspirin poisoning. In the entire recorded history of man, not a single individual has ever died from cannabis poisoning. Admittedly, I have spoken with one researcher who opined that there may be a fatal dosage of cannabis, but it would require a person to smoke a joint the size of a telephone pole in under 15 minutes!

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[Monstrous4Banger]

I wanna see that study. Honestly, I was over this conversation at "Sagan was a blithering idiot" . Pulitzer disagreed, and so did NASA. Sagan blows a hole through your stupid stoner myth. Countless others too. How many Pulitzer do you have Flash? Not to mention implying Im therefore "incapable" because I get benefit from an herbal nightcap before bed, and espresso to wake me up in the morning. HA! Hell, the coffee is gonna kill me before the pot ever will.The basis for your claims is his writing style? He was an astrophysicist ffs. Then again there is no reasoning in totalirianism. Even hints of eugenics.....nice. Chips, really? WOW You clearly could benefit from cannabinoids. Harm to your body? What is this mechanism to this harm you speak of when eaten or vaporized? Cannabinoids are not toxic to the body, unlike highly toxic alcohols . There simply isnt even a ballpark comparison to the two pharmacologically. That type of misconception is how they get away with peddling their drug war.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqUa_G1h3pw



Oh yeah, im waiting on a CPU fan, and typing on my ps3. Ill respond more when I can use a real keyboard again.

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[Monstrous4Banger]

Yes Bill, the ld50 of cannabinoids is astronomically high. It exist, its just not physically possible to consume the required amount.

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[Monstrous4Banger]

On second thought though, Flash might be one of those who gets anxiety attacks from it, and just plain cant relax. That sucks. I enjoy REM sleep, and the melatonin it biologically synthesizes in the brain. Necessary for mental health.

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[968Syncro]

All writers and readers of all posts on this forum about alcohol, marijuana, melatonin, sex, cheating on your taxes, lying to your wife, and advocating freedom and personal responsibility are being monitored, cataloged, and permanently associated with your permanent record and persistently retained for eternity by the Obama administration for future use when you dare tell the truth about what happened in Libya during an election season when Democrats are not confident of a win.

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[Monstrous4Banger]

Hahahaha

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[flash]

pot when smoked, which is by far the most widely used method of consumption, is NOT safe. it has been proven to cause cancer MORE than tobacco. it just isn't as widely used yet, nor do people admit to using it, so the sampling isn't there yet. once that information gets out there more, you can bet that it will be targeted as poison, just like tobacco. insurance companies will not want to be paying on those claims. right now they can deny claims based on legality. if it becomes legal, you can bet you will see the studies come out in droves. the good news is that they will ultimately be able to enforce testing, and charge users higher premiums, just like the charge smokers higher premiums.



it's actually pretty funny to watch from the outside. we did a double blind study in college and the results were very interesting (it was kind of cool to be able to do that as an approved school project). reflexes, the ability to concentrate, and short term memory were quickly degraded. basically the subject was almost immediately rendered "stupid". we used standardized tests like mensa uses, and the results were hilarious. obviously i can see how this might be enticing to some. the escape and relaxation are attractive to many. for me, that is exactly not what i want. i don't want to be less than i can be at any time. i would prefer something that brings tighter focus, better concentration, more ability to multi-task, improves memory, and increases productivity. if i could go without sleep altogether, that would be great too. i've never needed much, ranging from 4 to 6 hours, but it makes me nuts that i am losing that much time.



as for other studies, a quick google will show those to you. they are plentiful and easy to find. you do have to sift through the political nonsense to get to it though.



there are very clear parallels in effect. no, it is not the same effect per dosage, but the effect is the same in many respects. does it really matter which one is worse? they are both bad. again, it's like choosing between dying by bullet to the head, or decapitation. you still die either way. that being said, i do a lot of things that are bad for me. i won't be stopping either, and as long as it doesn't affect anybody else, nobody is going to tell me to stop.



eugenics - absolutely - great idea. nature has been doing it forever. i just have no clue how it could be implemented by people objectively. it's like socialism. great in concept, but the practical application is highly problematic.



as for sagan, i found his writing to be lost, rambling, and disconnected. even his lectures and discussions were hard to follow. it all makes sense now, as this is how i find most people to be when stoned too. have you read any of his stuff? there are a number of "popular" or successful authors that wrote under the influence of something. that doesn't make the writing good. most people don't know good writing from bad. if they did, we wouldn't have half of the shows on tv that we do.



none of this has anything to do with what people should be able to do in their own house. the sedating effects of pot may well prove to be a good thing for many people. i have no issue with that, and will defend that right to the end. i only have an issue when somebody steps outside their home and affects others.



lol - it's the republicans you have to watch out for when it comes to recording everything said. hopefully we can get the patriot act repealed. that is an incredible breach of our privacy rights.

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[Monstrous4Banger]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iksA-DD3990

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[flash]

you can pull up all sorts of propaganda like that. it doesn't change the reality of the dangers. it doesn't change the reality of the negative effects as it is most widely used. it also doesn't change the realities of the medical benefits either. i have no issue with true medicinal use. how could i?



all i am saying is that it should NOT be publicly used any differently than valium should be. the same restrictions, regulation, and distribution controls should be in effect.



the direction that the proponents are currently headed is not the right one. this is a drug, and should be treated as such. i am not arguing against its use, but rather how it is used, how it is made available, and how we protect ourselves against the problems associated with its use, just as we would with any other drug.



i do feel sorry though for those who do not have it within themselves to deal with life without the use of drugs, or feel the need to escape. i think they are missing out on a lot. i also understand the need to find balance. that is exactly why i am closing down D1R. i find it to be a distracting source of stress. rather than cop out and take drugs or get drunk though, i choose instead to remove the source of stress.

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[Monstrous4Banger]

Still waiting for you to cite your claims. If national geographic , and video straight from the researchers mouth is propaganda, youll likely not recognize any evidence any way. Its simply your opinion, against what every pharmacologist knows to be true. Your OPINION, is counter to the evidence of researchers. If you cant recognize the chemistry, this conversation is pointless, because youre in denial. I can cite countless sources.



If you really believe all, that feel sorry, and look down my nose at everyone, elitism garbage...better put down the imitrex there buddy. Oh, the coffee too. The meat you ate for breakfast probably had antibiotics too, and growth hormones too. This isnt mechanical engineering. You simply dont know what youre talking about, and its making you sound hypocritical when you interject your fascist social views.

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[Monstrous4Banger]

Is fox sufficient for you? How bout associated press, they propaganda too?



http://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.f...setkNnC0LA

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