[Cloud9...68]

How does cannabis work as a fuel? How much of it do you need to produce a gallon of liquid fuel?

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[flash]

lbpesq -



alcohol - yes if it meant that the patrons left intoxicated or it affected their behavior in a way that is so often offensive to others. we've all seen the idiot loud drunk. for the record, i don't drink for the buzz. i don't know too many wine drinkers who do. that just happens if you drink too much. do what you want at home, but don't make me put up with a drunk. i get as obnoxious as the next guy when i'm drunk, and i should be penalized for it. it is not acceptable public behavior.



pot at a concert - absolutely opposed to any use in public - i don't want to smell that anywhere, or be subjected to it, and think it should be outlawed along with cigarettes in public. do what you want at home. don't subject me to your vices



i find the use of anything for mind altering or escape purposes to be weak and pathetic. in my business i work with plenty of people who smoke pot (and do other things too), and without exception, they perform better when sober, are more intelligent, and generally are much easier to deal with. unfortunately i have to put up with it far too often. before anybody thinks me a prude, i've tried plenty of things over the years, just to see what all the hubbub was about, and always found them to detract from life, not add to it. they reduced my abilities and diminished me as a person. i have found no exceptions to that line of thinking with anybody else and any other drug use. no matter what they think, nobody is a better person or more capable when on drugs. you're not funnier or more talented. you just don't know how silly you look. if somebody finds that they need that stuff to get by, or do it for the buzz, or think they are better when using, they need help.



i'm all for personal freedoms. i will defend to my last breath the right of anybody to do anything within the privacy of their own home. personally, i enjoy my wine, and i wouldn't want anybody telling me i can't. a glass now and then is nice. a bottle is too much. just enough of something to relax a bit or take the edge off is one thing, and i see the value in that. more than that should not happen in public. i have no problem with anybody else doing whatever they want at home. shoot up for all i care. just don't ask me for a job, or subject me to your drug-induced behavior in public.

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[Monstrous4Banger]

Lots of ways. What type of fuel? For automobiles? Hemp is high in lipids that can be converted to all types of things. Everything from plastics, to biodiesel. As far as yields from cannabis specifically...it would depend on the method, and desired fuel. There are some newer fancy biomass conversions, that show very promising yields, and research seems to be pointing to hemp as ideal feedstock, producing highest quality, and conversion to biod yields around 97%.



Can it alone replace diesel? Maybe not. It can make a dent, as well as the other multitude feedstocks for biofuels available. All of them combined, and petrol looks soooo 1890's. Obsolete comes to mind.

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[Monstrous4Banger]

" they reduced my abilities and diminished me as a person. i have found no exceptions to that line of thinking with anybody else and any other drug use. no matter what they think, nobody is a better person or more capable when on drugs."



I could come up with so many ways drugs make life better. Tylenol is one of my favorite drugs. Headaches suck. Gotta have my caffeine every morning. I could probably name five drugs youre on right now, that you dont even know youre on. Better living through chemistry. Hahaha

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[flash]

lol - actually, i find i don't need as many pain killers when i eat healthier. i get migraines, and am now on imitrix. i hate it. makes me loopy. i still have to stay inside and do nothing. it just doesn't hurt anymore when i do. i am better when i stop drinking coffee too, but i just need to get going faster in the morning than i have time for without coffee, and now i'm addicted. about 1 a year i cut it out for a month or so, so as to break the cycle. i'm going to be slowing down my life over the next few months, and should be able to get off of my dependence on coffee.



pain and most any other body function is something that can be controlled by a strong and trained mind, assuming you have the will and time to apply it. unfortunately we all too often let ourselves get too rushed and lean on a crutch. we're all better without stuff like that. you just have to be strong enough of mind to do it. i cave in at weak moments just like anybody else. i hate myself when i do too. makes me crazy. weakness sucks.



p.s. - i have no idea who is in the pictures, but if i had to guess, it is some guy pre and post steroids, and a perfect example of my point. he may be momentarily capable of a better specific physical performance, but in the long run it diminishes him as a person. is that supposed to be a good thing? if you think it is, ask lance.

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[Monstrous4Banger]

Well, for professional athletes its wrong, because its considered cheating. Diminishing them as a physical person....how so? Depends on the compound, and its potential side effects. Tell someone who has been bed ridden steroids are bad. When a doctor can administer them correctly, they can be a beneficial part of therapy. Cheating or not, cant say it doesnt enhance ones capabilities. Clearly steroids do, if not, how would it be cheating?



Lance survived cancer, and is alive because of drugs. You can strip his titles, but that doesnt diminish his physical condition. Bet it bruises the ego though. Id bet deep down, hes just happy to be alive. He can thank the "drugs" for that.

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[lbpesq]

Flash:



Don't kid yourself. When you drink alcohol, it has an effect, even if it's just wine and even if you only drink a glass or two. You may not be slurring your words of falling down, but it has an effect. In small quantities, it is a pleasant effect that can often bring enhancement to many of life's experiences. Cannabis can be used in the same manner. It can certainly enhance one's perception of music, art, and food, for example. Furthermore, it can help to open new pathways and ideas for those in the arts. Many a musician will tell you that cannabis can help provide a new and different perspective on playing with often results in quality music. And this isn't just in one's own mind. Recordings often prove this to be true. Cannabis works by mimicking the body's own endocannabinoids and bonding with receptors that have been programed over the course of evolution to react to the endocannabinoids we naturally produce and with are remarkably similar to the cannabinoids contained in cannabis. Many persons have found cannabis to be a positive influence on their work. Carl Sagan smoked cannabis daily. As for concerts, there are other ways of consuming cannabis than smoking. One can ingest it, or vaporize it, neither of which infringes on anyone sitting around you.



And, or course, there is the whole issue of industrial cannabis. Food, clothing, fuel. Cheap and beneficial to the environment too!





Bill

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[flash]

monstrous - using anything like that to unnaturally enhance performance makes you less of a person. it's not YOUR performance anymore. using something to alter your mind makes you less of a person. it's not YOU anymore. in both cases you have cheated, whether you cheated somebody else, or yourself.



lbpesq - in my perfect world, the wine would be free of alcohol. unfortunately it does not taste the same. the alcohol NEVER enhances anything though. it only dulls my ability to see what life really has to offer. it dulls the taste buds, it dulls the sense of smell. it dulls the hearing. it absolutely does not enhance my perception of art or music, other than to be so mentally dulled as to accept something that sucked, when if i was sober i'd know better. being on the other end of the console, i can tell you for certain that i have NEVER see a better performance from somebody when they were not sober. people on something just think they are doing something better because their judgement is altered. remember, this is what i have been doing for a living for over 20 years. i have a pretty good read on reality on this. having to go back more times than i can count, and re-record tracks, or pitch-bend the heck out of something, just because some moron couldn't come to work sober, has definitely given me the more realistic read on the subject. singers generally go flat. guitarists generally lose rhythm. drummers lose timing and touch. base players just take longer naps, so not much difference there. it doesn't matter if it's alcohol, pot, coke, or heroin. i've seen it all and had to deal with it all. whether in the studio, on stage, or on a film set, i can always tell when somebody is on something, and it's never for the better. it's just something i have to deal with, and somehow find a way to still make their performance work. i find that amateurs are the ones who tout the theory of talent enhancement the most. of course they usually lack the talent to begin with, and look for anything that makes them feel better about their abilities.



carl sagan was a blithering idiot. while he had some decent ideas for his books, his writing was meandering and cumbersome. he reminded me of mary shelley. now that i know he was stoned, i get it.



none of this means in any way that i still don't feel that anybody has the right to do whatever they want within the privacy of their own home. i'm just really sick and tired of people thinking they are entitled to screw with MY life in doing what they want. if i enjoyed eating beans and farting, can i come over to your dinner table at your favorite restaurant and sit down with you and commence polluting? how about if i liked singing? can i pop into your local coffee shop where you are quietly reading a good book and enjoying your coffee, and start belting out an off-key version of some horrible michael bolton song?



people have got to stop thinking they have the right to do whatever they want in public.

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[Monstrous4Banger]

Yeah really, why would we have receptors in our brains for cannabinoids, and even analogues of naturally found cannabinoids that our brain produces if there is no purpose for them? Im no neurochemist by any means, but dont seem to jive. Just thought of that.



Also, ethanol is actually toxic, and absolute poison to your liver. Even in small amounts. Make it a methyl grouping instead of an ethyl......drink that....yer dead. Just by adding a carbon, and 2 hydrogen atoms to seperate the two. One kills you slowly, one kills pretty much immediately . Both are toxic acyclic alcohols. Ive personally seen it destroy livers.

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[Cloud9...68]

Maybe my memory is a little foggy on this, but I know Car & Driver did a test awhile back of the effects of smoking pot on driving ability (using the usual timed course through a series of pylons method), and I'm pretty sure the result was an immediate diminution of skill after the very first hit. I've never smoked pot - zero interest - but I was once given some marijuana-laced brownies at a party, and it made me feel like crap - pretty much just like it feels when I have too much to drink. I find it very hard to believe that any skill could be enhanced in any way through the use of any mind-altering substance - just doesn't pass the common sense test.

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[Rap]

Bill I disagree that legalization won't increase use amount adolescents. I don't mean to imply that they will be able to purchase pot. Although I certainly purchased alcohol underage. This is a behavioral issue. The more people who smoke, parents, the more kids will because their parents are now a role model indicating it is ok. And of course no one who doesn't have their head in the sand fails to recognize the pills that kids steal from their parents. I don't need a white or academic study here to make this point. I watch it everyday in the patient data that crosses my view. Kids will and do steal from their parents. Heck I copped booze from mine. And if someone doesn't think that children watch what their parents do and what their behaviors are and then mimic them, then that's a straight disconnect.

I'm not banging the drum saying no one can or should drink or do drugs. Factual open discussion minus the emotional barrage of opinion needs to occur. We have and are creating an underclass of young addicts who are emotionally, educationally, mentally, physically and spiritually behind. Their abilities to cope and engage, get a job and be productive, are far beyond their keen. They are great at playing games, drinking coffee and partying. They have always been told they are great and, "that's ok,".

I agree with some of what you say and also some of what Flash says. Some of the other things, well I respectfully disagree. That's what's great about this site. So many people get to have and express wrong opinions. Lol tongue in check fellas.

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[flash]

parents and behavior note: the older i get, the more i catch myself sounding and behaving like my father. makes me nuts every time

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[94SilverCab]

This topic always takes the conversation off the rails...



proposed:



2 legal adults are in their own home on a Saturday night.



No children to tend, no responsiblities left uncompleted, no equipment or machinery to operate.



They are both gainfully employed and do not receive government welfare.



Person 1: "Let's have 2 oz. of Single Malt Scotch"



Person 2: "I would prefer to have a hit of Marijuana" (or even better a lollipop or brownie).



Does anyone care which preference wins???



Jay

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[flash]

not me. heck, i don't care if they have both.

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[Cloud9...68]

"...and start belting out an off-key version of some horrible michael bolton song?"



I just caught this. Ugh. Now that waterboarding is frowned upon, this would be the perfect tactic to use on terrorists. It would definitely get me blurting out anything my interrogators would want to hear! Anything by Journey would do the same thing, lol.

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[flash]

lol - we used to call them "steve fairy and the pantywaist brigade". i have met or worked with the entire band at one point or another, and i have to be careful about that

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[lbpesq]

Rap:



Do you believe that there are a significant number of people out there who want to smoke cannabis, and the only thing stopping them is that it is illegal? Especially given that possesion of a small personal amount is usually no more than a slap on the wrist and a modest fine in most states? I've met many people over the years who use cannabis, many who used to and don't anymore, and many who have never used it. I've met few, if any, who told me "I really want to use it, but I won't because it is illegal." I've been a criminal defense lawyer for more that 25 years. I don't believe that potential criminal penalties have much if any deterent factor. Almost every defendant I've met believed the potential punishment didn't matter because they were too smart to get caught. (Obviously, they weren't).



How do you explain the fact that in Californina, where cannabis has been arguably almost legal for 16 years, we haven't seen any increase in adolescent use? Nor have we seen an increase in adolescent use in the Netherlands, Portugal, Spain, or anywhere where it has been decriminalized or legalized? In fact, Portugul now has the lowest use rates for persons over 15 of any European nation. The evidence is that use rates appear to decline with the onset of decriminalazion or legalization. Many ascribe this to removal of the "forbidden fruit" stigma imparted by prohibition. Do you believe the U.S. is different from the rest of the world in this regard?



Do you advocate keeping the status quo concerning the War on Drugs? It's cost us a fortune, and has resulted in vaulting the U.S. to the number one position in the world of percentage of population in jail. More than China, North Korea, Iran, Russia, you name it. We have 5% of the world's population, and 25% of the world's prison population. Couldn't (and shouldn't) the more than one trillion dollars we've spent on the War on Drugs be better spent on our schools, infrastructure, technology, health care, etc?

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[flash]

you haven't seen any increase in adolescent use??? you need to come over to my neighborhood and talk to the kids here. when i was in high school, we knew who the 2 dozen kids that smoked pot were. now, it's incredibly common, and they aren't bashful about it. we have them in the park behind my house all the time, younger, and in droves.



as for people saying they are not doing it because it's illegal, i know a LOT of people who say that. anybody who has to undergo a drug test for their job would be a good candidate, and i know quite a few of those. as an attorney, i'm sure you can imagine how the BAR would view such a morals breach. the wife won't drive if she has anything in her system, as getting busted would mean a loss of her license to practice.



again, none of this goes to the wisdom or lack thereof of legalization, but rather merely to the realities of today.

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[lbpesq]

Flash:



Where did you go to high school? I believe you are about 5 years younger than I am. I graduated high school in 1973 and there were a helluva lot more than two dozen kids using cannabis. According to the National Institute on Drug Abuse, in 1978 about 37% of 12th graders had used cannabis within the previous 30 days. In 2011, the figure was at around 22%.



Employment drug tests are another matter entirely. There are many people who refrain due to drug testing at their place of employment. However, if the employer stopped all drug testing, I suspect most of those people would enjoy cannabis again, regardless of its legal status. Furthermore, even if it were legalized, many jobs would likely still administer some sort of drug screening or impairment testing. Rap theorized that if it were legalized the number of adults using it would rise dramatically and their kids would steal it from them, resulting in increased adolescent use. My point was that the illegal status, in and if itself, does little to discourage those who want to from obtaining and using cannabis, and kids don't have to steal it from their parents to get it - it is already easily available to kids because of prohibition.

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[flash]

south bay area. basic middle class white neighborhood.



following your line of thinking, we should just let anybody buy and carry a gun, with no checks or anything. if you want to just let people try to control themselves with something that has been proven time and again to be beyond their control, then let's just open the floodgates to anarchy.



while i have no issue with somebody's personal entertainment, the problem is when this spills over into the public. because this stuff stays in your system so long, how do we make sure that people aren't under the influence at their job? i don't even want the guy making my hamburger to be stoned. i'd really like to think that the nurse administering meds was sober. it would sure be nice if that construction worker working on my remodel wasn't high. i'd really be pleased if the stage hand that was connecting up the band could focus on getting stuff right and not make me go over and fix it. it really doesn't matter what job, or how menial, it all has a negative effect when under the influence of a drug.



i'd like to see a LOT more drug testing at a LOT more jobs. i'd also like to see random testing at schools. if we are going to let people do something like this, then we need to teach responsibility. the penalties for accidents and injuries as a result of use need to be a LOT stiffer too. life sentences without parole for manslaughter under the influence sounds pretty good. our actions have consequences. we don't do enough now about alcohol. how are we supposed to deal with something that has the potential to be just as bad, when we don't even have the ability to objectively test on the side of the road for drivers under its influence?



this is something that is going to need a VERY long conversation, and on a federal and not state level, unless the federal government is going to abandon its drug enforcement entirely.



i can see it working, and i can see it failing. we are a LONG way away from any solution though.

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