[Rap]

I talk to young adults who believe that it is ok to use pot. Although I will regret saying this because I'm sure you will come up with tons of studies, pot like cigarettes are often initially used by adolescents. This is part of that behavioral piece I referred to. It's part experimentation, part defiance, part peer pressure and goes along with growing up for many. I see graduation from these first two drugs after the behavior has been experienced and found to be non harmful and cool. Non harmful only in the short term sense. Now I'm not saying everyone who smokes weed will use harder drugs. Did you try cigarettes as a kid? Did you smoke pot or jump right in to the harder stuff. I did what I am suggesting and knew many that did the same. Your a year older than I. Perhaps the circles we travel and the stratas we work in are different and present different views. I watched my kids do the same much like I watch many of every socio-economic kid do the same. Drug abuse has exploded in this country. Read the obituaries from Long Island, NY and see the death rate among kids. In my area the fourth estate has chosen to use the words died at home to mask the rate of drug abuse deaths. I bet ya a lot of these people at the early stage of their drug experience smoked pot. I am against the war on drugs. Total failure. Money could have been better spent defeating Obama. Lol a previous post of mine talked about putting all options on the table and talking about how we as a country want to deal with this drug epidemic and legalization. The stupidity, in my mind, of this piecemeal legalization prevents a serious discussion on the national level. Make no doubt about it, this will only work and benefit society when this happens. If we decide, as we have decided to nationalize medicine, to legalize pot and or other drugs then it must be done so all benefit. Not just a state here and there.

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[Cloud9...68]

As one of maybe three people of my generation who has never (intentionally, anyway) taken any type of illegal drug (and why anyone ever would is completely beyond my comprehension, although the fact that millions do proves that I'm way out of step with the crowd), I'm the last person to speak with any authority on this subject. But there's one facet that nobody has yet brought up - that drugs have been outlawed for a relatively short period of time. All throughout the 19th century, and well into the 20th, it was perfectly legal for anybody to snort or shoot up to their heart's content.



I used to be all for legalizing not just pot, but all drugs, mainly because I take a fairly libertarian view of most things, and I saw it as a huge potential source of tax revenue. But then I saw an episode on the History Channel about the history of drug use in the US that gave me pause. The footage of large groups of well-dressed socialites from the 1920's shooting heroin at cocktail parties was pretty chilling. So, my question is, from what we know about the era before drugs were outlawed, were we better off as a society before, or after? And I have to add that I, like Flash, know people who say they would smoke pot every day if it were legal, so for adults, anyway, the fact that it isn't does seem to be at least something of a deterrent.

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[Rap]

The other point that I disagree with is the mention that it is ok to do what you want in your home. While conceptually that is correct, it's not the point. The issue is larger than that and can't be explained in such a narrow and parochial way. The issue is not what people do in the privacy of their homes but rather what they do outside their homes. Since it seems that people will do what they want and that includes outside their home, the position of inside the home doesn't hold water in the overall discussion. The discussion needs to incorporate all possibilities for thoughtful solutions to emerge. Parents give their teenagers and their friends alcohol in the privacy and safety of their homes. This doesn't make it right , legal or even safe. Again I support the discussion of these issues even though the solutions might run counter to my beliefs. Those solutions being national of course!

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[lbpesq]

The people you know who say they would smoke every night if it were legal, probably already do. ;-)

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[flash]

i have no problem with parents giving their kids alcohol. it works fine in other countries. the problem i have is that we do not as a society make parents responsible for the child's behavior. we let them off the hook way too much, and let them run unsupervised way too much. if the parent had to suffer the penalty of the child's behavior, and that penalty was stiff, we would have a lot fewer children doing things we don't want.

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[lbpesq]

Flash:



You sound like someone who has never had a teenager.

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[Rap]

Bill for once we agree. There aren't enough jails for all the parents and children. Besides I don't deserve jail or a fine!

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[flash]

i'm a firm believer in an extremely strict upbringing. it worked for me. i'm all for military school, corporal punishment, or whatever it takes to keep the kid in line. kids should not be coddled. we have gotten soft as a direct result. the idea that a child can sue his parents is ludicrous. the idea that a child can call the police at the drop of a hat for a spanking is outrageous. this is why kids think they can get away with things, and do. there are no consequences for them, and the parents have no responsibility. everybody passes the buck. parents should be held strictly liable for anything their child does until they are 18. we hold people responsible for the behavior of their dogs, and they are smarter than most kids these days. why not children?

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[Rap]

Parents are more concerned with being their children's friends than being their parents. Parents opt away from setting forth boundaries of acceptable behavior and then enforcing it. Drill Sargent discipline is not necessary for the majority of kids. Kids accept boundaries in fact deal well once they understand the expectations. Now that's not to say they won't wobble or all buy in, but I'm amazed at our adolescent facility and how this happens everyday. Also, I had difficulty with my youngest but there was a divided camp which she exploited. But that's another conversation!

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[flash]

drill sargent discipline may not be necessary, but it sure works. we give kids way too many freedoms. they lack the judgement to exercise those freedoms wisely. this is a medically proven fact. the brain is not developed there yet. a perfect case in point of how we allow things to happen is giving a child a cell phone that can call or text anything other than home or 911. they have no need to call their friends, and should not have access to that kind of thing. it serves no purpose other than to undermine the parent's authority. i had a neighbor kid organize a 300 person house party mere hours after his parents left. this was all due to the cell phone and texting. this is not something they should have access to.



many adults are no better, and should be treated the same.



our justice system is pathetic and out of control. this is because we have created an environment that nurtures and rewards criminal behavior, rather than scorning and punishing it. gang members have become local heros instead of pariahs. we dramatize and worship this behavior in our media. we let kids see this stuff and without any contextual explanations.



if our jails are full, then clearly we have not built them right. take a large area in the middle of nowhere, build a huge city, wall it in, and make it the one and only prison. make it harder on prisoners. make it something to avoid. bring back public hangings. bring back public stonings.



see how i brought it back to the first post?

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[flash]

lol - now you guys have gotten me all riled up about kids.



yesterday i'm in the grocery store. i see this kid about 10 years old pushing around a shopping cart, running at full tilt the whole while, swevrving in and out of people as they dove out of the way. this kid is fat, dressed in what looked like pajamas, barefoot, and out of control. i just about stopped him the second time he was making a pass, when i look up to see his mother, who was also disgustingly fat, wearing skin tight clothes not unlike the kid's (spandex is not everybody's friend), and completely oblivious to his behavior.



when did we decide that we could go out in public like this?



just made me sick. no sense of self respect whatsoever. i just wanted to go up and slap her, tell her to get her kid in line, dress him properly, and stay away from the cheeseburgers.



tell me again why it would be a bad idea to require a license to have a child?

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[lbpesq]

Flash:



Here in California, if you minor child causes damage such as vandalism, you are responsible financially.



And you definitely sound like someone that has never raised a child. Do you think if we don't give our kids any freedom, they'll magically be able to handle it and become responsible adults the moment they turn 18? 21? And if a kid is irresponsible, do you believe beating him or her will make them responsible? Theories are one thing, reality is quite another. Teenagers do not consider the future, they don't plan ahead, they don't see "the big picture". It is the way their developing minds work. You can't "beat it into them" anymore than you can take someone who has never driven a car and beat them until they become an accomplished race car driver.



As for America's criminal justice system,as I noted above, we already imprison far more per capita than anyone else on the face of the planet. Do you really think imprisoning even more is the answer? Or should we start cutting off hands for spitting in public? Or with technology, why don't we just plant chips in everyone the day they are born so the government can monitor everything they do and immediately take them into custody the moment they do anything wrong? (Of course then, we'd all wind up in prison - we can build robots to be the guards). It will be a brave new world.

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[flash]

no, i've never had kids. i don't think we need any more of them.



yes, i think that if we are strict with kids, we will absolutely have responsible adults. that's how it worked for centuries. we only have the problems we do now because we let people get away with things. it used to be that there was an expectation of responsible behavior, and when you didn't behave accordingly, you paid for it with your life. that worked.



beatings work. sure worked on me. they understand beatings. they don't understand a "time out". something else that worked really well when i was extremely young was being made to stand in a corner in front of everybody, with my pants down. public humiliation as a punishment for bad behavior is extremely effective. i'd spank my kids too. unfortunately they have laws against that now, due to the soft minded idiots, and so i don't put myself in that position. that's called being responsible. i know that i cannot raise a child properly without strict discipline, so i don't have one.



yes, i think punishments should be more severe. commit murder, and you are to be put to death immediately, and in public. not everybody deserves to live. we need more strict 3 strikes laws, not softer ones. we could certainly structure prisons better, and segregate violent criminals from non-violent ones. white collar criminals should pay, in cash, for their crimes. if they get caught, any money they make for the rest of their life goes to the system for redistribution.



if we make it ugly to commit crimes, we won't have so many criminals. yes, there will still be those who will do things due to their genetic disposition. we need to weed out the herd and get rid of those genes. the problem is that we have no way of objectively determining which genes to weed out, or how we would manage that.



chips are a great idea. we do it with dogs, who are a whole lot more loyal and generally well behaved than most kids. why we haven't already required this baffles me.



we have become exactly the decadent and amoral society that terrorists claim we are. we just refuse to admit it. we poison the planet more than all other countries combined. we use more resources than all other countries combined. we have more people in prison than any other country. clearly there is something very basically wrong with the way we live.



i'm so sick and tired of people thinking they can do anything they want, and with no consequence. a good example is the neighbor across the street. they live next door to a house that has been vacant for almost a year. they have taken to using the driveway of that house. it's not theirs. they are not entitled to squat on somebody else's property. they are both doctors. you would think they would know basic right and wrong. clearly they don't. they are a prime example of the moral decay of this country. we have lost sight of basic right and wrong.



the ironic part is that this all sounds very extremist and conservative, and i'm very much the opposite. i just acknowledge that people have gotten less intelligent over the years, and less capable of making good decisions. something needs to be done to correct that, but i tend to think that eventually it will blow up in our face, and resolve itself.



clearly i need to sit down and smoke a fatty and calm down and let all the world's problems fade away.

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[lbpesq]

Do I understand you correctly: the system should be that poor people go to jail and rich people pay money instead?



As for kids, my son, (step-son actually - I've had him sine he was 4 and he's now a senior in high school), has never been the victim of corporal punishment. He's a good kid - the biggest problems are getting him to do his homework on time. If I were to physically attack an adult, I could be arrested and imprisoned. But if I physically attack someone who is young and unable to defend themselves, that makes it o.k.?



The older generation has been making the same complaints about the younger generation since the earliest of recorded history, and likely before that too. Check out a song called "The Other Generation" from the 1958 Broadway Musical "Flower Drum Song". None of this is new.



And yes, a fatty might do you a world of good!

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[94SilverCab]

I don't think a fatty would do Flash any good. He would spend his time consumed with what rolling paper would burn the best, the fastest way to de-seed and the Hydramatic joint roller (Drug1Rolling, $53.95).



Jay

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[Cloud9...68]

Wow.

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[lbpesq]

Jay:



ROTFLMAO!

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[flash]

money does not enter into the equation. it's the crime that would dictate the punishment. violent criminals are removed from society. white collar criminals would pay back what they stole. by the way, what you stated is the way it is now. rich people almost never go to jail, especially if they are celebrities (yes, i know there are a few exceptions).



just because somebody raised their kid without corporal punishment does not mean that it isn't needed with the next kid. if he isn't doing his homework, it's the parent's fault. if he had the fear of getting his ass kicked, he might tow the line. worked on me. fear is a great motivator. i did extremely well in school as a result. (9th in my class with full ride offers at a number of colleges.) i chalk it all up to the way i was raised. discipline provided me clarity and focus. i had my own business with 6 employees by the time i was 14. i qualified to graduate from high school at 16 (took the GED just for giggles), ended up with almost 100 extra units, played in 2 sports, and was in student government. i also had a job after school. none of that would have happened if i were raised the way kids are today. spare the rod and you spoil the child. by the way, i was what they would now call ADHD. they called it hyperactive back then.



we waste entirely too much time and effort trying to make our kids happy. they don't need to be happy. they need to learn how to be productive members of society and how to behave in that society. they can be happy when they get out on their own.



as for the fatty, that would be fine right up until i realized that i wasted time doing something non-productive and harmful to my body, and didn't solve anything. then i'd kick myself. it's bad enough that i have to waste 5 hours a night sleeping. i really don't need to waste more time.

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[kzem1]

I am 100% behind Flash on this one. To many spoiled rotten lazy ass no responsibility kids in the world. It is time to buck up. Our society has created an entire generation of lazy ass me me me kids. Thin skinned little babies that have been coddled to death. NO. Not all kids are this way. That said, there are sure alot of them out there. No respect for anyone or anything. No sense of responsibility. I cant tell you how many times I have told whinny little kids at work(golf course summer camp), "I am not your parents, I am not going to coddle you so stop whining. If you dont want to do this, go sit in that golf cart and let the others who want to participate have fun. I am not your dad and I'm not your babysitter." 9 times out of 10 they go to the cart and after 5 minutes of me not going over to check on them, they come back to participate. They realize I am not going to baby them and their whiny little attitude is only hurting them because I could care less. I have had parents thank me for this. Too bad they spend too much time trying to be their kids friends and not parents.

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[kzem1]

One more thing. Just like Flash. I too would be diagnosed with ADHD today, based on the way I was as a kid, and drugged to death. Thank god I grew up when I did. Those drugs are just a cop out by adults who don't want to be parents.

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