[Cloud9...68]

Beautiful car, with stunning specs.  I've never driven an electric car, so I'm not qualified to comment on the experience, but I have to wonder about whether the sheer accelerative force can make up for the lack of the feedback from rev'ing through the gears, the sound of the exhaust note and the engine's mechanical components, etc.  As I've said, if for some reason my vanpool disbanded, forcing me to buy a car to commute to work in, it would be an electric for sure, because I could charge it for free at work (after hacking through the fossilized cobwebs on our virtually unused charging stations).  But I'm not sure it would be my first choice for a "dream car".  Definitely a beauty, though, and a quarter mile in under 9 seconds is just crazy.  Wonder when they'll be in production.  In any event, it does belong in this thread, by virtue of its incredible performance.

 

And Jay, your point is well taken.  For whatever reason, maybe because everybody thinks they're an expert, lol, threads tend to often veer off into discussions about alternative fuels, most often electricity.  Would it make sense to start a new category for alternative fueled vehicles, possibly replacing one of the off-topic threads that haven't had any discussions in a few years, like the one on yard work, for example?  Not sure how difficult it would be to do that, but it seems like it would help streamline the forum and make future searches less frustrating.

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[ds968]

I've driven the top model of the Tesla line , which in " ludicrous mode " has a mind-numbing acceleration force but it did absolutely nothing for me ; without the experience of a revving engine, the sound produced by a tuned exhaust coming out of a V8 or V12 egine, the shifting through gears ( even they are just paddle ) theat speed capability means NOTHING to me.

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[Cloud9...68]

Maybe, but that's one nice-looking souped up golf cart.

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[flash]

lol - all that work to get to the fun part - zipping through corners and feeling gravity push you around as you fight to hold traction - no thanks

 

having driven shifter carts and non-shifter carts, i'll take the non-shifter any day.  shifting is a pain in the butt.  also, i'll take a quiet cockpit over a noisy one any day.  that has been one of my main gripes for decades about performance cars.  they are always so noisy.

 

i didn't see the horsepower output spec on the tesla, but 7300 ft/lb???.  not much going to beat that.  so, you can spend a million on a veyron, and still get your butt kicked? 

 

4 seats???  trunk space too???  all wheel drive too?

 

yeah - pretty sure this is my next car

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[Cloud9...68]

Well, I guess people are going to agree to disagree on this.  I see Flash's point if the goal is to get through a section of road (or track) in the absolute shortest amount of time possible, where things like shifting and waiting for the engine to get to the rpm where it delivers its peak power are distractions.  But for the overall experience of driving a high performance car at, say, 7/10, for many people, the sound of the engine/exhaust as the engine revs through its range, and the feeling of control that comes through shifting gears, are a very enjoyable (some would say indispensable) part of the experience.  I do agree that a lot of really high end cars are actually too loud.  There was a new Acura NSX, of all things, at the track last Saturday, and I was surprised how loud its engine was, and its exhaust note wasn't the most pleasant.  Same goes for McLarens - a bit much.  On the other hand, I was on the track with a 996 GT3 a couple of weekends ago, and that car sounds incredible - chasing him, and listening to the glorious sound of winding out its engine as he was pulling out of the curves, really enhanced the overall experience.

 

I see two main markets for electric/electrified cars:  1)  High-end hybrids, like the NSX, BMW i8, Ferrari LaFerrari (what a dumb name) and Porsche 918, where the electric motors are used to provide instantaneous power and traction when needed, and 2) Commuter appliances, like the Nissan Leaf and Chevy Bolt (do they still even make those?).  To drive on my soul-crushingly boring commute, it would be an electric in a heartbeat (even better if it were self-driving).  But if I was in the market for a fun car to drive for other than commuting purposes, it would have to make the vroom-vroom sounds, and require my involvement in selecting the gears, for sure.  But maybe those of us with that opinion are a dying breed.

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[94SilverCab]

You may be able to have the best of both worlds. From what I understand future electric cars will have a "programmable" sound (thing ringtone) so that they can be heard by pedestrians. Imagine a Nissan Leaf that sounds like a Ferrari V12.

 

Frankly, I don't care by what means I am propelled, I love the feeling of acceleration and velocity.

 

Jay

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[flash]

they don't hand out trophies for "the best shifting".  winning is getting to the finish line first - period.

 

there is no way for me to explain how much opinions would change if one lived with an electric car for a year.  the instant acceleration is intoxicating.  the quiet cabin is soothing.  the lack of need of maintenance is comforting.  the nearly free operating cost is fantastic. 

 

for the record, before we got the first electric car, i felt exactly the same as those here who are currently disagreeing with me.  i felt the same way about the PDK too, until i lived with it for a while.  i would now never go back to a manual transmission car.  i would now similarly always choose an electric car, provided i am in the right situation to have one (a place to charge it).

 

this is a lot like DE vs racing.  once you start racing, you never go back to "driver education".  it's only half of the experience otherwise.

 

i love that tesla is bringing back the roadster.  it will open the doors for other sportier models of electric cars, and at far lower prices.

 

it will happen.  people just need to give it a chance.

 

in the meantime, i'm ok with the idea of having "the fastest car in the world"

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[Cloud9...68]

But that's my point - what you're describing is a track situation, where being the fastest is the only thing that matters.  For a large number of enthusiasts, the visceral feelings of the sounds, vibrations, and mechanical feedback are just as important as raw speed, anywhere but on the track.

 

But by the same token, to at least 90% of the public, a car is just another appliance, and I'm sure they couldn't care less what kind of sound (if any) it makes, or how "involving" it is.  Which makes it puzzling why electric cars' sales are still so pathetic, even after all these years.  The Bolt has been a total flop - I've seen maybe two in very eco-obsessed Austin.  Tesla's are of course very popular with the one-percenters, but there are only so many of those around.  And the notion of unwavering electric/hybrid owner loyalty is, at least so far, a myth:

 

https://www.autoblog.com/2015/04/22/edmu...lty-study/

 

That's just one of a score of similar articles on the subject.  Maybe this will change over time;  hopefully by the time the electricity to charge them is coming mostly from non-fossil fuel sources, some time in the 2100's, most likely.

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[Rap]

I agree with Cloud about the visceral feel that one gets on the track with a combustible engine. Having not participated in racing I can't compare it to DE. I watch Club Races and talk to the drivers I know. They constantly encourage me to get involved. Can't understand why I don't since I have the times and speeds. It is a personal choice. I will say this though, there is no where that allows me to do what I do on the track and experience the feel of that. The sounds, smells, noises and punishment mentally and physically can't be beat.

I do agree with Flash, please don't all fall off  your chairs, that the pdk is impossible to beat and is addicting. When I purchased the Targa a pdk was the only transmission option that I looked for. That said, my manual 968 is my track car and I enjoy driving it on the track.

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[Cloud9...68]

Maybe it's because it's what we've all grown up with.  If back at the dawn of the automobile, electric cars had won out over ICE's, we'd never be talking about the sounds and vibrations associated with driving a fast car, on the road or track.  

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[Rap]

Don't you think back in the day the mongol hordes screaming across the plains on their horses loved the same things?

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[Waylander]

Sounds like east London on a Saturday morning

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[ds968]

Sounds like east London on a Saturday morning

That's funny ! ( though probably not far from reality ..)

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[ds968]

 shifting is a pain in the butt.  also, i'll take a quiet cockpit over a noisy one any day.  that has been one of my main gripes for decades about performance cars.  they are always so noisy.

May as well get yourself a velour leisure suit and fuzzy slippers to sit in your electric " car " while it's driving you around town and you can watch Oprah on the car's GPS screen.

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[Rap]

Of course now you will be able to drink, smoke weed and sit without your seatbelt on.

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[ds968]

Interesting you should mention that , a local person was recently indicted on DUI charges , after his Tesla which was in self driving mode crashed . His attorney argued that his client was not " driving " , a statement which was essentially laughed at.. he was " operating " a vehicle so the violation is treated the same. Maybe he should have hired Bill, who as a veteran of the trade would have likely come up with a more viable defense ..right Bill ? Actually even if the car is parked , the keys are out of the ignition , but you are in possession of the keys , you can be charged ...although chances are in a case like that you might get away with a far lesser punishment than being drunk in the car while it's driving you .

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[lbpesq]

One can always be charged. The real question is if one can be convicted.

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[flash]

roflmao

 

back on topic - i think we will see an increasing number of electric cars, with increasing amounts of power, as we see more implementation of alternative fuels.  

 

cow dung can be used to create fuel to power generators.  it is very effective and already being done in a number of countries.

 

biofuels, using starch waste (not corn) can generate fuel as well.  corn has been the way they have been doing it currently, but that is expensive and inefficient.  we already have the infrastructure in place to collect the composting fuel source.  they show up at your house every week.  that material just needs to be redirected to a facility to make the fuel.

 

this then allows for cars to all become electric, as the electricity is now being made from waste, at a much lower cost.  gas stations can just become charging stations.

 

there is no denying that electric cars can produce more power than fossil fuel cars.  there is also no denying that they can be faster.  people are just going to have to give up their antiquated inefficient petrol cars, just like they gave up VHS, tube TVs, rotary phones, and oil lamps.

 

personally, i can't wait for my next electric car.  driving around town, it was so much more pleasurable to drive than even the targa.

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[Cloud9...68]

lol - you know a thread has gone to you-know-what when the topic turns to using cow dung to generate electricity..

 

I agree that biofuels are fascinating and potentially very promising.  Are you referring to burning the waste directly, or converting it to liquid fuel, and then burning it?  If the latter, that technology isn't ready for prime time yet, although there have been some promising developments lately, at least at the laboratory level.  Ironically, if this becomes a reality anytime soon, like within the next decade, I could see these fuels being a serious competitor for electric cars, as both approaches are close to carbon neutral, but biofuels would have the advantage than they could be used in long-distance trucks and airplanes, as well as short-distance land vehicles like commuter cars.  It will be interesting to see how that plays out.

 

If you're talking about burning the waste directly, that actually makes a lot of sense, at least on paper, because as waste organic matters sits in landfills, where much of it doesn't have access to oxygen, the decomposition process releases methane, which is 25 times more potent as a greenhouse gas than CO2.  So it would definitely be very advantageous from a climate change perspective to burn it for fuel, where it would of course release CO2, but it would be a carbon neutral process, because the CO2 that's released would be balanced with the CO2 that was consumed in growing the plants.  But if it's such a good idea, I wonder why it hasn't been widely adopted.  According to this very neutral article, Sweden, a model for this kind of stuff, as of 2014, generated 8.5% of their electricity from burning waste. 

 

https://slate.com/business/2014/07/wte-i...sense.html

 

Seems like it would be a pretty massive undertaking for this method to make much of a dent in U.S. electricity needs, especially if electric cars are widely adopted.

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[ds968]

lol - you know a thread has gone to you-know-what when the topic turns to using cow dung to generate electricity.. .

In the words of Christopher Walken's SNL character : " fellas, fellas ..we need more ..cowbell ! "


Listen, we can't even manage to desalinate ocean water , which Mexico has successfully done for twenty + years , and yet we should hold any hope of implementing a structure for alternative energy sources in our lifetime ?! Good luck with that ..

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