[az968]

Rap, you must not have checked that on the options list.

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[flash]

because some of the kits were sold through pete, and i had no knowledge of some of the customers, i asked the first batch of 10 (the beta test group) not to talk about it publicly until i had a chance to shake out any bugs.  of course, since i ran it for a year and a half, there were no bugs to speak of.  however, once we had a short period to check out things, everyone was allowed to say whatever they wanted, and were in fact, encouraged to do so.  pretty much standard protocol for any responsible company and a new product.

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[ds968]

I would think E car prices , including Teslas , will eventually come down ( pretty much have to ..) to the point of where they'll be competitive with a comparable gas vehicle, and allow the " average Joe " the choice to buy one, if so inclined. I know Flash underscored the long term cost comparison, but I would be willing to bet less than 1% of buyers ever factor that in and are far more concerned with what the sticker shows. Pure human nature . But, hey maybe like all electronics, e- cars will follow suit ; remember that TV you bought ten years ago for $ 4,000 ? It's now $ 400 ( same size and and an even better model ) . So maybe ten years from now you can buy a new E car, not quite at that big of a cost drop, but maybe for half of what it costs now . Maybe ...

p.s. if this sounds as if I'm defending e-cars now, I'm not , lol. I still will never own one ..I'm addicted to the sound of a real engine and exhaust note, and unlike many folks I love the drone of it while cruising also !! Sure, e-cars may end up with fake vroom vroom sounds , piped in via speakers , but that's ok, I'll let folks who like fake things in general go ahead and enjoy that feature....

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[ds968]

Wait, what are D1R SCs doing on this thread ? :-) ;-) . And is anybody selling theirs and that's why the topic came up ?


p.s. I'll be selling one of mine ( and with a fully rebuilt engine and a whole 968 attached to it ) in the not too distant future. Will post that one on the right thread though, unless of course the propsctuve buyer wants to race test it against the new Tesla Roadster, and then we can leave it on this thread :-) ;-)

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[flash]

roflmao - i was thinking the same thing - way off topic.  glad it was brought up, as dispelling misinformation and rumor is important, but wished it was in the right area.

 

back on topic - sort of

 

because we leased our i3, as does most of the E-car public, sticker price is really a non-issue.  it's the month to month they look at.  they take the $250 a month the lease costs, and deduct what they save on fuel and such.  you end up with a car for about $100-$150 a month, and access to the commuter lane to boot

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[Rap]

My most abject apologies for mis threading.

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[flash]

lol - we all do it

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[ds968]

That's true, a majority of people lease e-cars, rather than buying them as opposed to regular cars where I believe the ratio is overwhelmingly in favor of purchase . I understand why those who own their businesses may prefer leasing because of the tax benefits aspect, for for regular working stiffs like me and all of my colleagues who own Teslas , that's one question I never thought of asking them ..pretty sure the majority lease their Telas worth perhaps only a handful who bought the car outright .

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[Cloud9...68]

Leases are the right choice for some people, but they're not for everybody.  Also, one of the advantages of electric cars is that they potentially could last a lot longer than ICE-powered cars, so the idea of a lease ironically negates one of EV's main pluses.  The average driver keeps their car 11 years now, which doesn't fit into the lease model, either.  Makers of EVs have to find a way to get their prices competitive with conventional cars.  But they've been around for many years now, and if anything, they seem to be getting more expensive.  I thought I had heard the Model Y was going to compete with vehicles like the Toyota Rav4 and Honda CRV, but from Musk's latest statement, it sounds like it's going to be yet another EV that's out of reach for average folks.  Either EVs need to become cost competitive, or the price of gas has to go up to around $10/gallon.  If neither of these things happens, it's going to be a tough road for EVs, which is unfortunate, because they do have a lot of attractive qualities.

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[flash]

according to bloomberg new energy finance, 80% of EVs are leased.  this is largely because most EV owners swap out for the latest technology at the end of the lease.  we did the same thing.  what that means is that you can get a used EV for next to nothing, but since they don't really wear out like an ICE, they are a great value

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[Cloud9...68]

I'm not surprised most EVs are leased, but I didn't realize the number is that high.  I'm not understanding how you can get a used EV for next to nothing, though.  Teslas, in particular, hold their value very well, so even a used one is quite expensive.  

 

The problem with leases, obviously, is that it means you're stuck with car payments pretty much forever.  This works well for a lot of people, particularly affluent folks, but isn't the best strategy for everybody.  Ultimately, EVs will have to compete with conventional cars on the basis of MSRP.  It's an interesting and very dynamic situation, because EVs are getting better, but then so are ICEs, but ICE's are also getting more expensive.  I guess I'm just surprised that after all these years, EVs haven't come down in price to any measurable degree, and their advantages aren't that compelling for a lot of people.  With incentives going away, and the looming possibility of some sort of fees to offset the fact that EV owners don't pay gas taxes, EVs face some significant head winds.  I'm not making any predictions, though - unforseen technological advances could change the situation overnight.

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[flash]

when we traded in our first i3, the price of which when new was $55k, the trade-in value of the car was then $24k.  this was a 2 year lease.  they sold that car for just over that $24k about 2 weeks later.  i was tracking it, just out of curiosity.

 

there are other advantages to having a lease payment forever.  a lease means the car is always under warranty, and therefore no repair bills.  personally, i like that.  

 

the big advantage though is the write-off.  in this day and age, you pretty much have to not be paying attention in class to not have an in-home business, so you can write off stuff like that.  if you're smart, and have a decent accountant, the way they have set it up, you can have a business, lose money for 3 years, take the deductions, then close that business and start a new one for another 3 years, yada yada.  all perfectly legal.  screwy system, and exactly why the country is in such piss poor shape, but it is what it is.  may as well take advantage of it

 

pretty sure i can't get away with a write off on the roadster though.  lol.  the "audit alarms" go off at anything over $85k.

 

as for the "changing winds" it all depends on what happens in 2020.

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[Cloud9...68]

 and exactly why the country is in such piss poor shape,

lol, yeah, the U.S. is just a freaking mess.  What with virtually full employment, wages rising for the first time in over a decade, interest rates and inflation near historic lows, the stock market flirting with alltime highs, crime near record historical lows (it's even dropping in Chicago!), air and water quality the best it's ever been, hundreds of thousands of people pouring into the country every year, with millions more who would given the chance, a university system that perpetually attracts the best and the brightest from around the world, things are just falling apart.  There are probably 194 counties around the world that would that would sacrifice their precious national soccer teams to be in the sort of dire straits we're in over here.

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[ds968]

  There are probably 194 counties around the world that would that would sacrifice their precious national soccer teams to be in the sort of dire straits we're in over here.

 

Oh, little you know about the fanatical national soccer team following in other counties, to them that's life's first priority and importance,  family comes in a distant second,  and religion a distant third ( in those nations where religion means anything )  .    They would not sacrifice their countries national teams for anything !   As they shouldn't !!  

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[Cloud9...68]

lol - yeah, it was the most extreme hypothetical I could come up with.  I should have toned it down to something like sarificing their first born kids...

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[az968]

lol - yeah, it was the most extreme hypothetical I could come up with.  I should have toned it down to something like sarificing their first born kids...

 Only if those kids couldn't play football (aka soccer).

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[Rap]

Of course we could solve our immigration problem by letting them all in but mandating they live in Ca. No extra Congressional seats or federal funding because they could tax them to increase their revenues. Problem solved.

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[ds968]

Of course we could solve our immigration problem by letting them all in but mandating they live in Ca. No extra Congressional seats or federal funding because they could tax them to increase their revenues. Problem solved.

Don't even get me started on our congressional seats criteria ; each state should have Senate seats allocated proportional to its population, similar to House seats . Yeah the senate would have to be bigger , but just sayin'

North Dakota and South Dakota combined have double the senate seats Claifornia, or Pennsylvania, or Florida, or New York, or Illinois, or Ohio have ...and so on.. For heaven's sake, there are more millennials in California whose name is Dakota , than the entire population of the two Dakota states !!

And why the hell do they need a north and a south state anyway, there is no difference whatsoever between the two. ;-) :-)


Ok, off my soap box now ( but on this post only ;-) )

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[flash]

so many far off base, off topic, and inaccurate comments flying in here, i can't even begin

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[ds968]

Right, it's about Tesla . RAP stop baiting me with anti-CA political comments on unrelated threads, you know I can't let those slide by without responding .. Maybe the last couple of posts discussion can be relocated to the " RNC - Lock her up " thread ? Jay ?..

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