[Cloud9...68]

There don't appear to have been:

 

https://www.ft.com/content/150a208e-3806-11e8-b161-65936015ebc3 

 

Looks like the designers of the Formula E cars have done an excellent job of protecting the batteries in the event of a crash.

 

It's going to be interesting to see what happens when Tesla introduces its Model Y compact SUV, which is the hottest selling segment of the market, I believe.  That could be a make-or-brake moment for EV's.  I don't think the average consumer could care less what is powering their car, as long as it's affordable, decent looking, reliable, and has the latest high tech gizmos.  A helping of "cool factor" doesn't hurt, either, and Tesla has shown that they can deliver on that front as well, although not with a 1.000 batting average (witness the awkward Model X).  The next ten years or so are going to be interesting.  

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[flash]

i could not agree more.  as i alluded to above, if all goes as anticipated, there is a development about to be made public that will change a lot of what people think about electric cars.  i am a bit surprised that it has taken 35 years to bring it to the market, but considering the origins and original uses, not all that surprised.  you should be reading about it any time now.

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[ds968]

" I don't think the average consumer could care less what is powering their car, as long as it's affordable, decent looking, reliable, and has the latest high tech gizmos.  "


Perhaps. Time wil tell I suppose.


Lol, anyone one who buys a 3 or an X or the new Y, clearly are all into tech gizmos and looking to get into a so called prestige brand of the E-car world at an affordable price, and could not care less about how the car looks ; those are some butt-ugly cars ) They make the Pontiac Aztec and AMC Pacer look sexy . ;-) :-) Not sure what happened to Tesla after starting out with a very attractive car, and then made a u-turn on aesthetics with their subsequent models .

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[flash]

that one has had me puzzled too.  they are indeed fugly.  also not sure why tesla has not done a 2 door version of the sedan.  if they had, i probably would have bought one.  i just don't like 4 doors.

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[Cloud9...68]

I agree that the S is the best looking production Tesla so far, and one of the prettiest sedans on the market, period, and while I don't like the 3 quite as much, mainly because of its odd front end, overall, I think it's a decent looking car, at least on the outside.  The X, on the other hand, no thanks.  But the new roadster is just drop-dead gorgeous - maybe the best looking mid-engine supercar on the planet.  I love how understated it is, without all the scoops and creases so common on cars nowadays.  If it wasn't for the sheer absurdity of the thought of spending $200K on a street car, it would be very compelling, no matter what it's propelled by

 

Speaking of the Roadster, one thing about electric sports cars I've always wondered about is to what degree the incredibly heavy battery pack dulls the car's responses.  I know the weight is down low, which is great for overall grip, but I have to wonder how nimble a two-ton (which I'm sure the new Roadster will weigh, to allow anything near a 600 mile range) car is going to be.  Instant acceleration and high grip levels are great, but to me, there has to be a certain amount of "tossability" thrown in to amp up the fun factor.

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[ds968]

Indeed, the new roadster is a beautiful car ! That's if the production models will come out identical to the prototype design . Often , and not sure why, the actual production cars lines are dulled down ( not just Teslas but just about every prototype you see at a car show is great, and then you see the released models and they look almost nothing like the design they presented ) . Very disappointing .

I did not like the first roadster Tesla had , it looked like a copy cat of the Lotus Exige, Elise, and all those ridiculous looking tiny cars that belong on a shelf at FAO Schwartz or the soon to be revived Toys R Us , ready to be given to your 10 year old daughter for her birthday to ride around in the cul-de-sac. This one however has lines comparable to the new NSX, which, IMHO , is THE best looking ( in the relatively affordable sports car category ) vehicle on the planet. Needless to say even if Tesla was less than half the price of the NSX, I'd take the NSX any day any , any time . It's a REAL car, not some battery operated electric crap-mobile . But how do I really feel about e-cars you ask , ? lol...

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[Cloud9...68]

Agreed - most production models end up looking very different from the show cars they're based on -witness the new Supra;  very disappointing, imho.  Totally agree about the new NSX as well - beautiful car.  I drove with one during a track session recently - to my surprise, I was ever so slightly gaining on him, although he just got the car, so I'm sure he wasn't yet acclimated to it.

 

But the Tesla has such relatively simple, elegant lines - not like some radical, impractical piece of auto porn staged behind the female eye candy at some auto show, so I think there's a chance the final version won't differ too much from the model recently unveiled by Tesla.

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[flash]

wow - i hated the nsx.  stupid looking bookshelf rear wing, underpowered for the "supercar" it was marketed as, cheap interior, rattled like crazy, and shook/vibrated at anything over 140mph. cheap imitation of a 308 (which isn't saying much)

 

lol - i am going to archive this thread for the day when ds968 gets his first electric car, and loves it.  i know he just hasn't spent enough time in one to appreciate it, but i also know how great it is in stop and go traffic.

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[ds968]

Ok, so we won't comment on looks because that's largely a subjective topic , but your experience with the NSX you drove conflicts with every single major automotive publication which deemed the car to be nothing short of all around driving excellence . Consistently referred to being in the best three driving " super cars " ( I wouldn't call it a super car, but ok..) on the road, and very challenging roads that is . It was rated above the Audi R 8 ( V 10 version ) and nearly matched the McLaren ..which is a super car . ( Gotta drive one of those and compare it with the Portifino I just drove .. not that I'd spend that kind of money for a car whose looks I don't care for at all )


LMAO, you can archive this thread in a time capsule but you'll have to wait for extraterrestrials to open it many years in the future before you'll find any record of me buying an electric car. I don't need to spend more than five minutes in any car to know exactly what I like and don't like . It's just like food and drinks, all you need is one taste or one sip of any given thing to immediately determine if you like it or hate it .


But you will find me once or twice a year driving an electric vehicle for several hours ...it's called a golf cart ! - :-) Pretty much what all electric cares are, just glorified golf carts .. IMHO, of course, lol.

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[968Syncro]

lol - i am going to archive this thread for the day when ds968 gets his first electric car, and loves it.  i know he just hasn't spent enough time in one to appreciate it, but i also know how great it is in stop and go traffic.

Count me in as a holdout, because I am not convinced that the technology is mature enough.   Does anybody know what the life is on the Tesla batteries?  When do they need replacing, after 5 or 10 years?    Besides here in San Diego the Teslas are everywhere.  There is hardly a red light or a parking lot that doesn't have a Tesla pulling up.   And their exhaust note is horrible, nothing like a Porsche, you can hardly hear them!    I am a big believer in hybrids, but not yet full electric.  But I know the day will come when full electric will be the undebatable choice I will select.

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[Rap]

Are tesla"s awd?

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[Cloud9...68]

Are tesla"s awd?

I believe so - they have both front and rear motors, but not the same number front and back, iirc.  

 

I've never drivn an electric car, so I'm not qualified to comment on the driving experience.  I rode in a new Volt once, and actually liked it, though - it felt surprisingly sporty, which surprised me, considering how heavy it is.  Which brings me to my main objection to them.  The fact that they need well over a thousand pounds of batteries to carry them the same distance as a petrol powered car goes with an 80-pound tank tells me the battery technology has a ways to go.  But on the other hand, they work amazingly well considering this fundamental drawback, in that the batteries can be packaged down low, out of the way, and the lack of the need for an engine frees up space for a lot of cargo space.  

 

Oh, and I have to retract the comment I made about $200K being an insane amount of money to spend on a car.  It depends on your means.  95 percent of the population could never afford such an expensive car under any circumstances, while for the top 2%, a $200K car is like buying a Corolla for a person of average means, so it isn't an insane purchase at all for them.  Now, for the 3% or so in between (like me, for example), such a purchase would truly be insane.  I could free up $200K from my 401K and still leave plenty for my retirement, provided I keep working as long as I plan (to about age 70 - I like my job).  But it would be a truly stupid decision, because there are a lot of more productive things I could do with that money, like paying off our rental home, for example.

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[flash]

lol - i hate the way the 968 feels too.  always did.  i had to spend a LOT of money to finally get it to feel right.  maybe i just expect more from a car.  i found the nsx to be a piece of junk and fugly to boot.  sure, for 10 minutes it was a few giggles, but after spending a month with one, i was ready to kill myself if i had to get into it one more time.  they did get better as the years went on, but i think they missed the mark in design.  it was one of those "in betweeners" that never really fit into one end of the spectrum or the other, and didn't define itself.  that is likely why it did not sell well (only about 6000 US cars in the 15 year run).  it was certainly affordable enough.

 

as for battery weight, keep in mind that most drivetrains weigh nearly 1000 lbs.  engines are generally about 400lbs or more, the trans is another 150, and then there is the differential (or multiple for awd), not to mention the fuel tank, fuel, fuel lines, pump, etc.  the difference is not nearly as much as one might think.  the model S is 4300 and change.  a run of the mill bmw 5 series is about 3800 and change.  both cars are about the same price, features, etc, but the tesla has a lot more room, is a lot quieter, and if you are smart enough to put panels on your roof, will run for free.  no brainer.

 

as for price on the roadster, the way i look at it, any exotic car i would buy would be in that neighborhood anyway, but would cost a lot more to operate, and not be as fast.

 

i don't make judgements on anything in 5 minutes.  that is insane.  i hated wine when i first drank it.  i didn't like my wife at first.  i didn't think much about electric cars at first either.  now i have learned to appreciate all.  i think it just takes somebody opening their mind and actually giving something a chance.  some people don't have that ability though.

 

a lot of opinion is based on the cars out there.  it does not help that most electric cars are less than attractive.  however, there is no accounting for taste.  i hate the way a maserati looks (there was one 2 seat convertible that was ok).  some people love them.  i hate the 911 (except the 991 targa).  we all know i am in the minority there.  i think if they start coming out with some more cars that look better, they will catch on much quicker.  however, it will mean that sales of the meat and potatoes cars will fall off fast, and i don't think the manufacturers or the oil companies are ready for that just yet.

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[ds968]

Save this post in the archives :  electric cars will have a relatively short life span , in spite of technology advances in range, and charging infrastructure improvements, service timelines  ( has anyone tried to schedule an appointment lately to have anything done on a Tesla  - its about a six to eight week wait time to get the car in ) and all that..  the moment hydro or biofuel alternatives are perfected , both of which are not that far off from a very viable option, e-cars will become a relic and seen as little more than a failed fad.   I give that lifespan a maximum of twenty years, maybe even less.   In the meantime petrol / gasoline powered automobiles will NEVER go away in our lifetime, or the next generation's lifetime .. 

 

I don't mind some electric motor added to a V8 , or V6 or a 4 - banger for that extra and instant torque, but fully electric cars are, as I've said many times before, devoid of any soul and pleasure driving them .   Same with any self-driving features.          

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[flash]

lol - fortunately teslas don't need much maintenance.  yes, relative to some other cars, they may cost a bit more (average cost is $2400 over 4 years) but they run over 300k miles.  there is no fuel cost, time wasted at gas stations, no engine wear, far less brake wear, no oil changes, yada yada.  you spend a LOT less time taking the car to the shop.

 

the more likely scenario is that once hydro and biofuels become perfected, that will replace the large energy producing fuels, and generate more electricity.  the answer is not to come up with alternative fuels for cars.  the answer is to come up with alternative fuels to generate electricity, and then charge the batteries in the cars with that.  this would do away with gas stations, tanker trucks, the environmental nightmare that is fuel related, and be more efficient to boot.

 

anybody who has a negative optinion of electric cars, just has not had the opportunity to actually spend some time with an electric car.  if you commuted in one for a month, you would be a convert, just like everybody else.  not having to step on the brake to stop in commute traffic is wonderful.  the peace and quite of not having to listen to the engine drone on is truly amazing.  the instant response of torque is intoxicating.  gaining back that half hour a week spent at the gas station is fantastic.  on day to day driving, i would choose an electric car every day of the week, and twice on sunday.  for the rest of the "driving experience" go to an arcade.  it's safer, you can drink a beer while driving, and you won't get a ticket for speeding.

 

i am just surprised they have not replaced the pedals and steering wheel with a joystick.

 

the day of individual cars is coming to a close.  it is getting too hard to drive one in urban settings.  in my life time i am certain we will see the last petrol powered car roll off the line.  i am also certain that we will see automated cars commonplace.  frankly, i long for that day.  as much as i used to love driving, i am over it now. it's ironic too, because we just took away the cars of the in-laws.  they are constantly complaining about not being able to drive themselves, and having to rely on uber and limos.  i dream about that day with great fondness, and cannot wait until i never have to drive again.

 

with that, i am off to the gas station to fill up the audi.

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[flash]

just a couple of new developments on the battery front:

 

https://www.futurity.org/ceramic-lithium...s-1841362/

 

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20...111913.htm

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[ds968]

[quote name="flash" post="186225" timestamp="1550771799"]

 we all know i am in the minority there. .[/quote


Ha, to say that's an understatement , would be an understatement in itself !! ;-) An that's in just about every respect as well... but as the adage goes : " different strokes for different folks " , so it's all good .


BTW, the first generation Teslas ( model S ) were not AWD, I hear however all the newer models are.


Oh, forgot - flash : what NSXs are you talking about which you drove and left you unimpressed ( and spent a month with ) ? I was strictly referring the the new 2019 model reviews, but essentially the platform which came out starting with 2017 or was it 2016 production ? .. and not any of the other ones in the company's 15 year history .. although I like the way those look as well.


And now this just in : https://news.yahoo.com/tesla-tanks-subar...00105.html


Surely one of the Tesla defenders out there will find fault with this report , instead of the car itself , lol.

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[flash]

 i was talking about the first generation car - 1990 to 2005.

 

re: report - growing pains - every successful company has them

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[968Syncro]

Tesla Model 3 pushes market share of electric vehicles, hybrids in California to 12%

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/bus...story.html

 

Therefore if a red light or parking lot has at least 10 cars, one will be a Tesla, they are everywhere.   It's a status symbol in status conscious SoCal.

 

If we then acknowledge that 68% of vehicles are F-150s  :glare: , that leaves 20% for all other cars.

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[ds968]

I guess there is some hope for e-car lovers ( with a fat wallet ) after all . Finally a well designed body ( IMO ) mounted on that battery .

https://news.yahoo.com/brand-electric-sp...04633.html

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