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Which subwoofer do you have?
#41

added complication - the tweeters are exactly where the legs for the windscreen go in "normal" configuration - those could easily be moved to the box outer corners though, and maintain stereo separation - if you figure out the answer to the below question though, you won't have to move them



any way to reshape the box so the roll bar legs can go through it?



i will be starting on my storage box sub tomorrow - not anticipating any issues at this point - should support down to 35hz
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94 Midnight Metallic Blue Cab Porsche 968 w/deviating cashmere/black interior and WAY too many mods to list - thanks to eric for creating www.968forums.com



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#42

brian, the tweeters are mounted in the vinyl side panels in the car, i labeled it in the picture below because it's hard to tell. i guess the holes are for a factory wind screen, like flash said, but when i saw them they looked perfect for mounting tweeters. the tweeters came with a flush mounting bracket(most tweeters do) that looks like this /--\. the middle part attaches to the back of the tweeter and the arm like things secure it to the back of the panel it's mounted in. i did not trim out any material in this hole or fabricate anything(this part of the stereo i did myself) to fit the tweeter in there, the only thing is, you need to make sure you get a small tweeter unless you want to cut up those panels. the first set i had didn't fit. you could put the tweeters on the top surface of the box if you wish and with angle mounts it could work out better than my solution as far as sound quality is concerned, i just wanted a more discrete look.



flash, the way i understand it, you are asking if there is a way for a bar to come down and attach where the cabinets are bolted in on the bottom(towards the outside of the seat-shaped area) or somewhere in this vicinity. i'll be able to look at it sometime this weekend to make sure. i don't know if that could be done in this configuration, but i'm confident that it could be done if the 6.5" speakers were eliminated. this would allow you to bring the subs in enough to give you the room on the outside.
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#43

After starting this thread I finally got around to (with camera in hand) taking some photos of my sub, Amp and stereo installation. The display color is orange and matches the stock look perfectly, couldn't be happier. No BS display of moving ricer cars, swimming fishies or bellie dancers, plain display, simple clean sound!

The sub cover took a LOOONG time to cut out and be tight fitting. After I was happy with the fit I sprayed expanding around the edges on the inside to seal the sub. This Sub really sounds great! WAY louder than I like to listen to, but its there if I want it. Thanks for all the inputs from everyone. Glad to see such and intrestl



        [attachment=747:attachment

]         [attachment=750:attachmen

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#44

much like dave's car



and this is where hardtop owners get lucky - we cab guys can't do that - the baffling of the seat backs makes it a mess in the very low mids (around 120hz)



if you have the well lined, all YOU have to do is punch up 60hz about 1 db in a very narrow band, and sweep about 2 db out ot 160hz about a quarter octave wide, and you're in there - your crossover should be at about 130hz and at least 12db



of course you will also want to cap off the low end from the rest of the speakers in the car (or use a crossover to perform the same function)



unfortunately, we get to do much more work than that
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94 Midnight Metallic Blue Cab Porsche 968 w/deviating cashmere/black interior and WAY too many mods to list - thanks to eric for creating www.968forums.com



"It isn't nearly as expensive to do it right as it is to do it wrong."
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#45

Thanks Flash,

I have the crossover set at 150Hz with a variable 0-12 db boost. I also have a dedicated +/- output control on the head unit for the subwoofer so adjustment is almost unlimited. At 400 Watts @ 2 Ohms this little 8" Sub really snaps hard! I am not a big fan of the Boom,Boom,Boom but I do like my bass hard hitting and tight, I like my unit A LOT. Next time I see you in person If I ask real nice maybe you'll help me tune the system better than my crappy ears can. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> Too many years of Skil saws and air compressors. I put a sound deadening material in the cubby before I sealed it shut.

Thanks for all the help you gave me with the stereo.



Dave Who?



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#46

OK, I finally have some pics of my enclosure. It is a bit different design, and I expect (hope) that the roll bar will fit fine. You will have to ignore the fingerprints in the vinyl part. I should have cleaned it first, but I only had a couple of minutes today to get it done, and waiting to clean it would have meant I would have to wait for tomorrow's daylight. Besides I am sure you don't need to see it clean to decide it you like it.



       



In the very bright sunlight, my digital camera makes the covering over the air holes stand out. But trust me, they really blend in so well, you have to look hard to notice them.



So you remove the shelf covering to see the real box. Notice that the real box leaves room for the roll bar (I hope).

       



And lifting it out, you can see that I have two down-firing Kickers, each in it's own box.

        [attachment=763:attachment

]



There is a 250 Watt amp for the subs, a 350 Watt Amp for the front and rear speakers. In the door I have some incredible Polk-Audio separates which I was able to install with the original grills, so it looks stock. I put some new 4" speakers in the back just for fill. I have the lo-pass for the front speakers set to 80 hz (the Polk audio speakers actually sound good down to 60...) I have the rear speaker lo-pass set to 120 hz. I have the hi-pass for the sub-woofers set to 100 hz so that I have a little bit of overlap with the front speakers. This seems to have a very musical effect through the whole bass range. Very musical.



If I crank up the subs and play something hip-hop or techno (not my mainstay, but I like some of it), I feel a real kick in the seat and chest. Listening to some of my favorite classic rock, I have heard bass parts that I have never heard before. But it is all very well balanced musically. (The teaters capture symbols and accoustic guitar sounds so well that it really sounds like the band is in the car with me.

I am quite happy!



   

Oh here is the Kenwood head unit, if anyone cares. I don't really like the way it unfolds when it is on. And this unit has to be open like this to play. But I had no choice in the head unit. This is what the insurance company picked as the closest replacement to my previous Kenwood, which fit the car looks wise much better...



Scott
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`92 968 Cab - Tahoe Blue Metalic/Cobalt Blue top/Dove Greay interior
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#47

Just got the coupe back from the local audio pros. The driver's side speakers were blown, both front and rear. The illumination on the stock head unit didn't work.... And Porsche installed lousy speakers to start with.



The new and improved setup includes a Kenwood head unit (it has a simple display mode or you can have the ricer cars and dolphins) Alpine Type-R (wonder who their target audience was) 5.25 components in the front, JL 6.5 shallow mount speakers in the read, and a 10" Kicker Comp VR sub in a fiberglass enclosure built in to the spare tire well. Power is supplied by a Kicker 700.5 5-Channel amplifier. The audio shop couldn't find a way to fit the whole thing into the spare tire well. The shop was originally planning to build an amp rack into the enclosure. it has a vented carpet covered cover that sits in the rear hatch. I just keep it covered with a throw that matches the rest of the carpet (gift from girlfriend.) I haven't really had a chance to tune it (been working all weekend so far) but I will be playing with it on Tuesday. So far I am very very pleased. This is definitely a grown-up stereo system.



Micah
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#48

[quote name='Ledhedsymbols' date='Jul 3 2005, 03:53 PM'](it has a simple display mode or you can have the ricer cars and dolphins)

Micah

[right][post="6808"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]



Ouch, Sorry about that earlier comment. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/rolleyes.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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#49

No need to look sheepish, I thought the comment was hilarious!



I have been looking for a big wing and a fart cannon for the coupe though. Now if I could only convert to FWD... <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/wink.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />
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#50

LHS,

Great Idea, I'll install a grapefruit shooter on mine too and we can duel it out across the parking lot from each other! <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/laugh.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />



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#51

Hmm, I am a little worried that my post got no comments. I hope this is not one of those "If you can't say anything good..." situations?
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`92 968 Cab - Tahoe Blue Metalic/Cobalt Blue top/Dove Greay interior
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#52

LD,

not to worry, your setup looks good and if your happy with the sound then thats all that matters. Good install on the subs.



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#53

ok - i'll weigh in, because i'm working on something for this area myself right now, and have been giving the design a lot of thought - don't take any of this wrong - i'm doing a lot of math and r&d on mine to get it right all the way down to 40hz



where did you come up with the idea? was it just a case of "what will fit?" - did you use an analyzer? if so, how did it look? what frequency was the low end support limit?



the woodwork and fitting look good - it probably does a good job all the way down to 100hz - below that though is where i begin to question the design



my concerns are what it looks like on the analyzer, particularly below 100hz - the design looks problamatic - i would have avoided parallel surfaces, those create harmonics that can actually negate low end support



the port is odd, and likely all but non functional for anything below 100hz - port tuning is a real science - the wrong size port is worse than having none at all - where did you get the design specs for that one?



by the way, what does it weigh?
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94 Midnight Metallic Blue Cab Porsche 968 w/deviating cashmere/black interior and WAY too many mods to list - thanks to eric for creating www.968forums.com



"It isn't nearly as expensive to do it right as it is to do it wrong."
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#54

[quote name='flash' date='Jul 18 2005, 11:10 AM']the woodwork and fitting look good - it probably does a good job all the way down to 100hz - below that though is where i begin to question the design



my concerns are what it looks like on the analyzer, particularly below 100hz - the design looks problamatic - i would have avoided parallel surfaces, those create harmonics that can actually negate low end support



the port is odd, and likely all but non functional for anything below 100hz - port tuning is a real science - the wrong size port is worse than having none at all - where did you get the design specs for that one?



by the way, what does it weigh?

[right][post="7505"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]



Don't anyone be afraid to tell me that my "baby is ugly". I will appreciate anyone and everyones help in making my car better. Even if it means swallowing personal pride. (So don't anyone else flame Flash for doing what I have asked him to do, which is give me an honest opinion.)



I am actually looking for some analysis equipment other than my ears to measure the frequency response. I know my church has some tools. I am not sure if they will work well in a car environment. Maybe you can make a suggestion on how I can go about measuring things.



From the seat of my pants, I can tell you it gets well below 100hz. Playing around with the boosting the eq in different areas of the bass range, and by selecting different music that uses that very deep bass ranges, I can get a feel for what the subwoofer is doing. It sounds pretty clean. But not on every kind of song.



I am slow wondering about the porting. Reading up on the Kicker documentation, this porting does not match what they specified. And there are certain kinds of "boomy" music where I am hearing under/overtones that appear to either be part of the structure or of the car itself. By playing around with both the adjustments on the amps, and with the adjustments in the head unit, I have it pretty close to what I want. But I would like it to be even better, and I am planning to go back to the guy at custom sounds to talk to him about making it better.



I did not design this enclosure. There was a specialist at the sound shop where I went that has earned some awards for his work. I gave him the guidelines I wanted, and he did the design and implementation.



All that said, by bigger complaint about my system is not the bass, but the midrange. There are some sounds that just come out too harsh. This is especially true of sounds in the vocal frequencies. When I try to eq this down, I lose some of the crispness in my upper range that makes the music sound so live. But I think I have found an eq that does a very good job for my ears.



Which brings me to my biggest gripe. The EQ on CD's is inconsistent! To make one some from one CD sound good I have to set everything one way, and to make another sound good I have to adjust another a different way. Some music has been pre-engineered to be so heavy on the bass it is ridiculous, while other stuff need so much boost I wonder what they were thinking.



Finally, I wish I had multiple user settings on the head unit. This unit has several preset eq settings, but only one custom one. When the top is down, the and the wind is blowing, the EQ really needs to be different.



Flash, I have been interested in what your design is going to look like, but I ran out of time and had to let the insurance company pay for the installation, or risk not getting some of the installation paid for. I am still interested in your design, and will consider retrofitting down the road.



In the mean time, my car still rocks better than anyone elses I have sat in. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/cool.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />
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`92 968 Cab - Tahoe Blue Metalic/Cobalt Blue top/Dove Greay interior
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#55

thanks - i'm not knocking your setup, and i'm certain that it is a lot better than without



that being said, while i am sure you are getting frequencies below 100hz, "supporting" that frequency is a different matter - you would need a scope or tone generator to show you just what i mean - a VFO (variable frequency oscillator) with a spectrum analyzer would show you that when you get down low, odd things start to happen - (it's actually kind of cool to watch) what this likely means in real life terms in your box, is that the very low frequencies (40-60hz) are not tight - there should be a very short pulse tight punch at those frequencies - you would be very surprised at how strong that pulse is when the box is right - the right size box, with no port, as is what yours looks like can be very punchy - i would need to know the airspace dimensions to crunch the numbers to tell you how low that box goes



the "ports" you have (the rectangular cutouts) are not tuned ports, but merely escape routes for sound, and most of that is going to be low mid (mostly 120hz-180hz) - you might try actually closing those up



as for eq and sound settings, i have some ideas and i might be able to help there, but i sure wish you were out here - drop me an email and we'll see what we can do on the phone
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94 Midnight Metallic Blue Cab Porsche 968 w/deviating cashmere/black interior and WAY too many mods to list - thanks to eric for creating www.968forums.com



"It isn't nearly as expensive to do it right as it is to do it wrong."
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#56

Here is a link to download a free software tone generator. The Htz is variable and so is the duration of the sweep. There are many different ways to use this software. Use your best judgement as to what will work for you. It can be programmed to find the "hot spot" or the "weak points" in your audio response curve. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/cool.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> ie. eq. OK? Sorry just had to. If you save this file and burn it onto disk then play it on the cd player in your car you will find out exactly how low it can go. EVERYBODY LIMBO!!! Or if you are a techno-geek and have a mp3 player and an Aux. input on you car so much the easier.

Enjoy, and I hope it helps.

Tone generator

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#57

sweet - good job - now just a visual display of the graph, and your'e good to go



of course, it's not for macs
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94 Midnight Metallic Blue Cab Porsche 968 w/deviating cashmere/black interior and WAY too many mods to list - thanks to eric for creating www.968forums.com



"It isn't nearly as expensive to do it right as it is to do it wrong."
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#58

[quote name='flash' date='Jul 19 2005, 02:55 PM']of course, it's not for macs

[right][post="7550"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]



I have several of both kinds of computers! <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/biggrin.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> Actually at the home page: NCH Tone Generator Home Page There does seem to be an OS 10 version as well as a Palm OS version.



You need to download some other tools at that site for tone detection and charting.



My head unit plays MP3, and it also has an AUX in, but I have not wired the Aux in to be accessable from the dash. I am thinking about doing that to allow for easy connection of iPods etc.



Thanks to both of you. I have some fun stuff to mess around with this weekend!



Scott
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#59

cool - i'll check it out - since i'm going to the extent of analyzing the sub and the cockpit, i would never consider stooping to the very low audio quality of MP3 for audio checking - convenient as it may be, the quality sucks - CD is bad enough - give me analog any day



anyway, i'l look at the tools - still wondering how they manage the necessary visual interface - sure you can generate a tone, but without being able to see the results, where are you?
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#60

It is possible to play a steady tone for any number of seconds. One could use the tones by the each to determine where the frequency is lacking or too brilliant. Each file could be increased by ~10Htz increments. No graph needed. Just a good set of ears. (Which I don't have)

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