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VIR vs Watkins Glen
#1

I've driven 5 DE events at Watkins Glen. I'm considering broadening my horizons by doing a fall event at VIR. Are there folks that have driven both that can offer a view of what I might expect? I'd always heard about how unforgiving the Glen is, but there are also comments about VIR being one of the most difficult tracks. Thoughts from the track junkies would be appreciated.
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#2

VIR is fabulous - particularly if your event uses the 'full course.' Latest Car and Driver does a high speed test at VIR with a very good technical discussion about the full course with layout and speeds.
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#3

I've driven both although I haven't been to the Glen in a few years. VIR is beautiful, very challenging, and has some extremely high speed gut check sections. I'd say I like VIR a bit better than the Glen. It just has something about it that's really cool.



I have to admit I was bored to tears going up the back straight in my 89 944. I found myself looking at the gauges and watching the BMW DE going on the Patriot Course off to the right...
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#4

I haven't been to WG but I did learn something about VIR. My lessons learned are: 1) If your steering gets behind in the climbing esses, just back off and write off the quick lap time. You can try to do better the next time around. 2) The elevation changes have a much bigger effect on your vehicle dynamics and you need to pay attention to the places like the climbing esses where the rear suspension unloads and the back of the car gets momentarily very light. Careful with your steering input at that moment. 3) Your car does not stop very well on grass at high speed. Don't let all of the runoff room give you a false sense of security. 4) VIR is a beautiful facility and you should enjoy yourself.



My $.02.



mike
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#5

The points are most appreciated. Never having been to VIR, I don't know how similar the climbing esses are there to the climbing esses at WG, but at least I've done some of that kind of track. And, at the Glen, there's practically no runoff room - and a lot of Armorall (sp.). It's sounding like, if it fits my schedule, I'll give VIR a chance - and apply appropriate mental caution flags.
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#6

Anchor,



VIR is WONDERFUL!!

Watkins Glen is Really Nice.



VIR is a thinking man's track...

Watkins Glen is a couple of sweeper's with a few straights thrown in for good measure.



VIR will take you forever to learn,

Watkins Glen will take slightly less time.



VIR has 'The Oak Tree'

Watkins Glen has 'Das Boot'



VIR allows me to redline 6th gear in 2 places,

Watkins Glen doesn't



You should do both, of course!



My very best to you...



Jason
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#7

Great comparative comments, Jason. Thanks, I'll try to do the Chin VIR event in the fall. How's the race driving coming?
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#8

Jim,



I've got my first race this weekend with NASA at Pocono...Can't sleep!



Jason
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#9

I can imagine...can't wait to hear the results - and the experience - next week. GOOD LUCK!!!
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#10

I've been to both, and I would definitely recommend that you try VIR. Both are excellent tracks, but having only been to the Glen, you'll learn a lot by driving a new track. I'm a firm believer that the more tracks you drive, the better driver you become.



VIR has a wider variety of corners than the Glen, so you'll definitely be learning some new things. The Glen really doesn't have any slow sections, and you never see 2nd gear there. VIR has two slow sections. Oak tree is a 2nd gear corner, and the 4-5 section is either 2nd or 3rd depending on your speed.



VIR also has some really high speed sections such as the Climbing Esses, and South Bend which is a very fast left hander following the Esses. In my car the VIR Esses are much more challenging than the Glen's Esses. At the Glen I can easily go flat out from turn 1 through the Esses all the way to the Bus Stop. At VIR, I can do the Esses flat out, but everything has to be perfect - car setup, fresh tires, a perfect line, and a willingness to experience a very high pucker factor.



VIR is narrower than the Glen in most places, so there is a premium placed on driving a very precise line. Also, at the Glen you have positive camber to help you in most of the corners. You don't have that at VIR, so that will take some getting used to.



If you're going to make the trip there, make sure to sign up for an event where they're running the full course. Often times they'll just be running the North or South course, but that won't give you the full VIR experience.
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#11

Best of Luck Jason !!!...show them what the tail of a 968 looks like <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/biggrin.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />



Regards,



Jay
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#12

jason - redline in 6th? - wow - short gears or not, that's danged fast for any track - good on ya



jim - great description - maybe someday i'll make it out there and you can show me the way around that track - sounds like a hoot
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94 Midnight Metallic Blue Cab Porsche 968 w/deviating cashmere/black interior and WAY too many mods to list - thanks to eric for creating www.968forums.com



"It isn't nearly as expensive to do it right as it is to do it wrong."
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#13

Jim you should checkout youtube for some videos of the track jsut search on VIR lap or something simialr. VIR 968 only returned this one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hNPNNJdVQg
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#14

Here's some video I shot from my car back in 2005:



http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=...5443849055
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#15

I love the Glen for the fast sweepers and VIR for the twisties but!!!

Mosport rules in my book. same designer as WG but has more technical stuff and is still wide and has fast off camber sweepers. Ye Haa

Pete
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#16

Jason,

Which 968 were you at Pocono? I was up with my Black 968 in the Black run group at the PDA/NASA HPDE. Was yours a red/orange one with "Amy" on it we saw run in the enduro? Truly enjoyed the double infield. It gives Pocono something different to toy with. We had a pretty crowded run group, but it was still fun. Never did better than 1:53.8 with traffic.



How you did well, and enjoyed the weekend. I did. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />
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#17

Rich Glickel drives the Amy car. He's also a PCA guy.
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#18

Vaino,



My car was #47, the Red 968...



Unfortunately, I developed a leak in the weld of my Heritage Radiator, so I was out after 2 laps of practice session on Saturday!



I ended up driving an older n/a 944, which had about 120 HP, no ABS and no LSD.



It was a great learning experience, and reminded me of what true 'momentum' driving really is...actually I think it's a great teaching tool. Too often I have made a sloppy mistake, only to forget it by stepping on the gas. A low HP car doesn't forgive as quickly...if it all!



I started 32nd, at the back of the pack, and ended up in 26th position.



Jason
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#19

I've now planned social events on the Chin Motorsports weekend for the October Watkins Glen event - which means I'm committed to making their VIR DE event on the first weekend of November. Anyone else?



Ooops - just had to change my commitment to VIR. Before registering (and there are only a few spots left), I decided to see just where VIR is. According to Mapquest, it's 495 miles and about 8-1/2 hours from home - too far and too long. So, since I've already messed up the possibility of making the Watkins Glen event, it looks like I'll be eventless this fall (unless I try for a PCA event, which I've never done).



Drats.
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#20

[quote name='Jim Child' post='38538' date='Jul 20 2007, 09:47 AM']VIR has a wider variety of corners than the Glen, so you'll definitely be learning some new things. The Glen really doesn't have any slow sections, and you never see 2nd gear there. VIR has two slow sections. Oak tree is a 2nd gear corner, and the 4-5 section is either 2nd or 3rd depending on your speed.[/quote]



Jim, what are representative lap times for a 968 at VIR? I checked some online race qualifying times but they seem too slow. I have the airbox mod and a chip, and turn 2:25s on a good day in a street car with mild suspension mods and race tires.



I use 2nd for T4-5, and can't quite take the climbing esses flat; I enter at about 110 and come out slightly slower. I know I lose time in T10, am going in at something under 80. And I brake between T15 & 16, not between 16 & 17. Is probably slower but feels safer.
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