[mdss]

hi flash



Did the wiggle test you recommended no play minute the steering was wiggled the wheels moved no matter how small the input was.



what about if there is too much pas fluid in the reservoir? i just checked when i got home after a good hard drive and the pas dipstick was on the very top line, do you think there is too much fluid and would too much fluid give the vague steering feel i get at speed.



i wish i could show you but at speed over 70mph imagine if you can when going in a constant straight line just like at low speed when you move the steering left or right slightly a very light loose feeling rarather than the feel i get at low speed which is a lovely heavy initial feel almost as though some effort is required to move the wheel, this is what 968's are famous for steering feel.



thanks again for all the help.

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[flash]

i don't think the fluid has anything to do with it



while i think you need to make sure you are not toed out, it sounds to me like you don't have enough castor, regardless of what it is set at



how low is the car?

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[bombfactory]

It's possible you might have the opposite problem I had. My steering was too heavy - underboosted - at low parking lot speeds. At higher revs it felt ok. I don't know for sure, as I ended up changing out my rack, but I figured the problem was probably the pressure relief valve (PRV) in the steering gear not behaving properly. It's supposed to stay closed at low rpm to keep the system pressurized and the steering boosted. At higher rpms it's supposed to open, relieving pressure so it doesn't get too high. Maybe your PRV is stuck in the closed position, causing your steering to be overboosted at high rpm. I'm no expert - just a thought!

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[Cloud9...68]

This sounds like one of those issues that's going to be very hard to diagnose over the internet, and that it would probably save the OP a lot of grief to take it to someone who has some experience with 968s and 944s and let him drive it. If he's lucky, the problem may be something familiar, and the fix might not be too expensive - maybe an obvious alignment issue, or a worn component that's straightforward to repair. There's even an outside chance (though unlikely, I realize) that what the OP is experiencing is within the bounds of normal on a 968, and the issue is one of perception relative to other cars he's driven. It's hard to say without a frame of reference. Taking my car to a mechanic borders on being against my religion, but sometimes, it's just the best course of action.

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[mdss]

Hi



thanks for all the help



I have taken it to andy from promax and he drove it and said it did feel a light at speed he then gave me some tracking settings to try and i have adjusted them to both his and flash's settings to no avail.



I have adjusted toe to flash's recommendations and will put more castor in today.

the post from bombfactory is an interesting one as sometimes its feels slightly better and then afeels light again i think i will replace the prv.



This is a pain as i have literally done everything now on the car and she is near mint again but i will not give up!!



thanks again guys your all legends

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[AJG]

The condition of the front shocks is very important to road feel. With increased speed there could be a lightening of the steering due to lifting.



Andy

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[bombfactory]

mdss - my steering feel was inconsistent too. Sometimes it felt fine, then taking the next corner it would feel like I had manual steering. The boost felt normal right after startup, but once the fluid heated up the heaviness would return. Very frustrating. And as I said, I'm still not sure if the PRV was the actual problem. So far the replacement rack (turned out to be a 944 unit, which required removing and re-straightening the steering wheel) is performing well and not leaking. Knock on wood.

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[mdss]

shocks are brand new koni's so doubt thats the problem and the fault was there with the old shocks.



Lets see if the castor helps

thanks again

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[flash]

one more time



how low is the car?

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[mdss]

Hi sorry the car is 25.8" from the floor to top of wheels arches all round this was adjusted just a few days ago.



I did today take it to promax here in the UK the main man drove it and said its nothing to do with pas prv or anything rack related. Car is running max castor and .1 camber which he said is correct. He did how ever say that the UJ on the rack may be worn its done over 100k miles, he had a quick look from the the top i.e. wigth bonnet open but said there did'nt seem to be any play but best to get it in the air and inspect the UJ propeerly.

Fingers crossed its this.



When he drove it he said the steering has a definate small problem.



This is pretty much the last thing to do.



Also wondering which other steering components can show play that wont necessarily show up in the "wiggle" test flash spoke about



sorry for the delay about ride height

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[flash]

no worries on the height - that's fine



i hope that joint isn't it - the last time i heard, that part is NLA



caster is maxxed? that would make you at over 4 degrees - is that what the printout sheet said? if not, there may be something wrong in the control arm bushing installation that caused you to not have full caster

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[mdss]

Hi



yes caster was nearly at 4 from memory will check but am pretty sure.



The UJ is still available in the UK as they had them on the shelf. So i am hoping its this.



Thanks again flash you are a good guy.

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[flash]

wow - if you have that much caster and it still floats, that's not it



if the toe is now set in and not out, and is about .1 degrees total, then that's not it either



really the only thing left would be a component with enough play to make it "float"



keep in mind though that like i said very early on, tire wear takes time to set and time to correct after a bad alignment - you could end up chasing something that was just a tire set issue, and would go away with time

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[mdss]

Hi

Flash after a full day with my friend who is a highly skilled technician we have tried all your setting re castor camber etc. we even went to the other extreme on castor to see but to no avail and was 100% worse.



One thing did come to light however when ever we pulled away the car sunk at the rear which is odd as i have brand new koni sport shocks and max hard setting on rear also under cornering the car does seem to roll alot considering the new max stiff rear shocks the front seems fine hardley any roll at all.

We then inspected the rear anti roll ball which seemed fine and all bushes were ok they are standard bushes not poly.



This got us thinking could the feeling i am getting be coming from the rear i.e rear steer which is being transmitted through the chassis.Where bdo you think the body roll is coming from ...rear torsion bar??

and if so is it possible it may need re indexing and will this get rid of the body roll?



Sorry for all the question pal, its just when he drove it in a stright line and then steered left and right quickly there was alot of roll from the rear and this caused a delay in the car changing direction



Your thoughts would be great your a star.



regards

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[Cloud9...68]

This is kind of obvious, but there are a lot of nuts and bolts that hold the various rear suspension components in place. Have you gone through and checked the torque on all of them?

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[mdss]

Hi



yes checked all of those today, after i thought about the rear anti roll bar i even checked that it was connected i was that paranoid but we could not find a single problem. the body roll is a little odd as is the squatting/pitching at the rear when accelerating away.

This car is for sure going to send me round the twist!!

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[flash]

well, i think you may have found your problem



max hard on the rear shocks will prevent the torsion bars from working properly - it will cause the front end of the car to dance all over the place



just like the front needing to be matched to the spring, with stock torsions, the shocks should not be set more than 1/2 turn from full soft for normal driving, and not more than 1 turn from full soft for aggressive driving



shocks are NOT there to stiffen the suspension - this is a very common misconception - they are only there to reach and maintain the natural frequency of the spring - back those rear shocks off and you'll see the front end come in line a lot better - no matter how stiff you set the shocks, they will still compress in a corner - they are only there to slow down the spring, not to add stiffness



the car WILL squat under acceleration on stock torsions - that is NORMAL - if you don't want it to squat, you need stiffer torsions or additional springs - you will then need to match at the front



also, these cars roll a LOT - that's the nature of the beast - that's one of the reasons i made my own swaybars



these are very spongy cars in my opinion - i really like them, but they are NOT sportscars - they are GT cars - that means they are really comfortable for spirited canyon drives, but are a bit mushy when you push them

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[mdss]

Thanks flash



i will do that monday, so have i wasted my money on the koni sport shocks? I thought this would be a worthwhile upgrade. But if i can only wind one turn on surely the car will feel very soft or are you saying that the body roll may actually be reduced as the torsion bar will work well can i have the fronts on max hard or must i wind them down also?



Having done a couple of searches i have seen people on here run the konis in the middle setting i.e. 3 turns from soft front and 1.5 turns from soft rear, i take it this is totally wrong then?



How much would you sell me your sway bars for remember i am in the uk, i can get the rear mo30 sway bar with poly bushes.I have heard great things about your sway bars.



Thanks again i appreciate you giving me your time to help.



many thanks

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[Cloud9...68]

Flash is right about his assessment of the sponginess of these cars. I have M030 sway bars, and slightly firmer-than-stock springs up front (250 lb/in), and stock torsion bars. So, it should be a bit former than a garden-variety 968. It's fine on the street, but on the track, it's WAY too mushy, and sways like a '65 Lincoln Town Car (OK, I'm exaggerating, but on the track, it sure seems that way). Hopefully, you've found your problem. Good luck.

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[Eric_Oz_S2]

[quote name='Cloud9...68' timestamp='1313277945' post='114224']

Flash is right about his assessment of the sponginess of these cars. I have M030 sway bars, and slightly firmer-than-stock springs up front (250 lb/in), and stock torsion bars. So, it should be a bit former than a garden-variety 968. It's fine on the street, but on the track, it's WAY too mushy, and sways like a '65 Lincoln Town Car (OK, I'm exaggerating, but on the track, it sure seems that way). Hopefully, you've found your problem. Good luck.

[/quote]



250 is still very soft. There is a huge difference between 250 and 350 (what I have) and between the stock rear tbar and one with coilovers. The stock rear suspension is way too soft and will certainly make the rear move all over the place. I ran my car on the track originally as stock and it was horrible - as Flash says very spongy. 250 fronts only make a small improvement. I have found 350F + rear with 225 helpers (Koni Sport/Series 30) a good compromise. The car is much more willing to change direction with this setup. The M030 sways seem well matched to these spring rates.

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