[LES]

I'm looking for new tires and General's Exclaim UHP are ranked number one over at the Tire Rack! Is anyone using these tires? The high rankings seem almost too good for the price!



Doc

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[flash]

number one in what?



what sizes are you looking at?

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[VGM911]

From the Rennlist forum, some points about N-spec tires:



"It's really this simple: Tires are a suspension component. Every car manufacturer calibrates their springs and dampers for a reference tire, usually what comes on the car from the factory. After that, they don't give a hoot what you do. N-spec is basically Porsche's way of saying that if you buy one of these tires, you're getting what the engineer intended out of your suspension. Whether or not tire companies pay is irrelevant. This also does not mean that non-n-spec tires are worse in any way or better in any way. It's like buying speakers for your stereo... if you step outside the reference specs, you're on your own. You might end up with worse performance, or different performance (which could be better or worse for you), or even better performance.



Grasp the fact that tires are part of the suspension equation, and consider the ego the Porsche brand has wrapped up in handling, and the n-spec thing isn't so crazy. Yeah, it's marketing. But not all marketing is bad."



"It's a safety thing. Consider: N-spec tires are rated for, among other things, the added load on the rears. Putting tires back there that lack that reinforcement means that, at the very least, you're going to get some lateral flex under hard cornering loads. It seems to me that lateral flex in the rear under heavy cornering is about the last thing this car needs. So, imagine someone picks a tire that fits, is cheaper, looks good, and seems sticker. And it even has a nicer ride. And then one day they decide to push the car hard through a corner. The tires stick like they're supposed to, but the rear end keeps rotating for another few millimeters as the sidewalls flex... Given how high this car's limits really are, it seems to me there's no question that you're giving up bit of predictability, a bit of margin. Fine if you're a boulevard cruiser, but maybe not a good idea if you're going to push it.



If you're somebody who knows a lot about this stuff, maybe you can find some tires that are off the menu but still have the right properties to be a good match for this particular car. But if you're not and you're just guessing, then it seems to me that you're giving up some of that performance potential that you paid for when you bought the car."





And from the Tire Rack site, here's a discussion about N-spec tires:



http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/tec...32&code=yes

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[flash]

here's something else to think about, and this in no way says anything about one brand or model of tire or another:



given that the tires today are so much better at load capacity and performance, having a tire that matches the specs of the tire that originally came on the car would not seem to be a good idea from a performance or load perspective



it might, however, be a good idea from a suspension component wear and tear perspective - the rubber bushings on this car are already inadequate - add the load of a stickier tire, and that inadequacy could be exacerbated



also, is that "N" spec model specific? does it break down into sub models? or is it just a generic "porsche" stamp of approval intended to meet the nominal condition needs?

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[biotechee]

I have the Generals on my daily driver ('04 Jetta GLI VR6). They've been on there for about 2K miles so far.



For me, I like them, A LOT. Great handling in the wet and dry, very low noise, aggressive tread pattern, and an awesome warranty (I believe 60K miles or something in that neighborhood). When looking at the ratings of the tire, it does very well or extremely well in all areas. High temp rating, incredible treadwear rating, etc. Now I know the ratings can be very skewed depending on how the manufacturer tests, but for about $460 installed for my four (4) tires (for 17x7 rims), I had to take the chance.



Also understand that I am not a terribly aggressive driver- there are track events for that and I don't track. The Generals suit me just fine so far. Provided they hold up as Winter approaches, I will put a set on my 968 next Spring. Not sure if the use of these tires on a rear drive 968 will be good, but I will probably try unless there is a better tire (for equivalent money). My extremely uneducated guess would be they would work well for 968's that are driven daily and not too aggressively.



They are also Summer tires, so no drivey in the snow, ice, or even colder weather.



I sure hope they hold up!



For what it's worth, this is my experience and opinion only. You pick your tires and you live with your choice... Don't harp on me if you don't like them! <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/cool.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[flash]

i've certainly got nothing against generals - while not the same tire, i have their grabber model on the denali and love them, and will buy more of them - their 305/40/22 had a higher load rating than the 20, and sticks like glue, with little road noise, and smooth riding - wear is decent, and it looks like i'll get about 35k out of them



i was just asking what they were number one in - i couldn't find anything on the site that said anything definitive like that

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[sasilverbullet]

I love my Goodyear Eagle's! Try them, you won't be disappointed...

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[bob blackwell]

I love my goodyear Eagle F1 tires too, but the rear tires are already showing wear after only 4,000 miles. That comes from using them as daily drivers as well as at parking lot autocrosses and Drivers Education (DE) events at the track. Still can't have everything I guess. good luck, Bob Blackwell.

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[biotechee]

Flash,



The Generals are rated number 1 in their catagory on Tirerack. This rating is based on customer feedback... Again, this can certainly be skewed no doubt.



It's not intuitive to jump to the overall ratings, but they are there for all the different tire categories.

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[flash]

where did you find that? i can see the indiviual scores for each aspect and such, and i can read the reviews, but i can't find the "rankings" - i'd like to see the list, and what size and application on which it was based



i want to see how a tire i am considering stacked up against its competition

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[biotechee]

Try this link:



http://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresult...;speed_rating=Y

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[flash]

sweet! thanks!

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[RPM]

Hmmmmmmmm... only 3 Porsche reviews out of 465 total.



My experience with Tire Rack forums is to read only Porsche and BMW reviews. It always seems to me that everyone else wants something for nothing and then praises their great deal after only 200 miles or screams bloody murder when the cheap tires get noisy or wear out at 10K. I also don't read reviews with less than 10k miles.



I don't know anyone using these on a Porsche.



Having said that, the General tires do score surprisingly high among reviewers. Funny thing is that they do not come up as available for 16" 968s - even though they carry the sizes. However, in 16" these are only available in VR. I would not go below ZR or W on a Porsche.



A great current inexpensive tire is the Bridgestone RE750 - and Tire Rack currently has a $50 rebate deal that would just about make the price the same. These are last generation technology and so getting cheaper. But hey! Our Porsches are two generations old... I am running a set and at around 12k am very happy with performance and noise.

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[biotechee]

That's why I mentioned these tires are on my Jetta. I have no experience with how they are on a rear drive 968 with wider rears than fronts.



But, for the price and given the assumption they will hold up on my Jetta, I plan to try them anyway.



I currently have S03's on the 968, but they are getting really old and I don't feel terribly comfortable on them anymore. Plenty of tread left, but with the frequency with which I drive my 968, I am worried about minor dry rot and also flat spotting. Plus they tramline a little too much for my likes.



I have also heard a lot of good things from various 968 guys regarding the Eagle G1SD3 or whatever they are. John Etnier has them and apparently likes them on his 968.

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[wingers]

I am off on Saturday to Castle Combe track in the UK for a sort of track action day.

The tyres i have are Bridgestone ZR expedia s-01.

205/55/16" front and 225/50/16" rears.

This the 6 speed manual.

Will they be ok and what is the best pressures to run them,speeds up to 150 +mph all being well.

Do the cars if they let go spin or worse tip up, how strong is the windscreen pilars if the worst was to happen in the cab with a crash helmit and no roll bar.

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[flash]

never heard of those tires - not sure we have those here - i'd ask somebody on the uk site



pressures depend on the heat - get a guage and see how they go



bad things happen when you flip a cab - so far nobody has been killed, but it isn't pretty



i wouldn't be doing 150 on a track without a roll bar - that's really fast - i think the fastest track out here might have room for a 968 to get up to 120 or so



good luck

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[LES]

[quote name='flash' post='36611' date='Jun 7 2007, 01:43 PM']never heard of those tires - not sure we have those here - i'd ask somebody on the uk site



pressures depend on the heat - get a guage and see how they go



bad things happen when you flip a cab - so far nobody has been killed, but it isn't pretty



i wouldn't be doing 150 on a track without a roll bar - that's really fast - i think the fastest track out here might have room for a 968 to get up to 120 or so



good luck[/quote]



Ok, let's see if I have this right! The speed and load rating are critical. When looking at the General and Goodyear tires in size 225/50ZR16, the load ratings are the same at 92 and the speed ratings are W and Y repsectively. Since I do not see me intentionally going over 168mph (the max speed for a W ratred tire) is the Y rating at 186 necessary for a 968 that may see the track ocassionally, 2 or 3 times a year? From all of the comments, and I do apreciate them, it seems for a non-track car, the Generals would be acceptable. Your thoughts!



Doc

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[flash]

i can't answer that question, but i can tell you that the speed rating is also subject to testing conditions - it meets that speed rating with a particular set of parameters (heat, load, etc) - i don't have the data on how much of what reduces the max speed limits of the tire



my gut says y is a waste on this car, and is intended for cars that can actually go that fast, or are being pushed to the limit - the sidewall of that 16 is going to give you trouble long before the speed rating



that being said, if you are going out on the track, i would have the best tire i could - going cheap on tires is asking for trouble or disappointment



16s on a cab on the track with no roll bar is doing much the same - i would seriously rethink that - gutsy but dangerous - not sure the guys around you are going to appreciate that a whole lot - be careful

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[VGM911]

[quote name='Doc' post='36655' date='Jun 8 2007, 01:17 PM']Ok, let's see if I have this right! The speed and load rating are critical. When looking at the General and Goodyear tires in size 225/50ZR16, the load ratings are the same at 92 and the speed ratings are W and Y repsectively. Since I do not see me intentionally going over 168mph (the max speed for a W ratred tire) is the Y rating at 186 necessary for a 968 that may see the track ocassionally, 2 or 3 times a year? From all of the comments, and I do apreciate them, it seems for a non-track car, the Generals would be acceptable. Your thoughts!



Doc[/quote]



It's easy to say "I don't need those high performance tires because I just drive at moderate speeds with only occasional track events."



Let me suggest that you read the report on performance tires in the following link so that you can make an informed decision:



http://expertpages.com/news/performance_tires.htm





In the article, the author makes this important point: " Since we are on the subject of speed rating, let's discuss those briefly, as well. First, speed ratings are no longer called speed ratings. How they get tested still remains the same, but there was so much negative feedback from consumers about speed ratings and what they represented, they are now called performance ratings. See, a car equipped with a V-rated tire will stop, handle and steer better than a car not equipped with performance tires, even at regular driving speeds. By changing a cars performance rated tires to a lower, (or high) will dramatically alter the way the car drives and feels. The average sedan owner might not think he "needs" performance tires, but he does, even at regular driving speeds. High speed driving or racing has nothing to do with it.



The truth is we are all performance drivers. Everyone benefits from performance tires. They are safer, stop better, react quicker, steer better and stand less of a chance blowing out on the highway. They react and work much better with modern ABS systems and today's sensitive steering and suspension systems."



Good luck in your search!

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[flash]

first, i am stunned a bit that i am taking the conservative position here, as i am usually the proponent of all things maximum performance



this one is give and get, and very situational - the tire i choose for the denali is not the same tire i choose for the bmw and not the same as for the 968, even though the first two are driven at pretty much the same speeds and situations, they need very different tires for different reasons



that being said, 16s define limits all by themselves - can you actually see the limits of a high performance tire on them? likely not - is there a big difference between w and y on this car? likely not - sure there is a huge difference between an h and a y, and i don't think anybody is questioning the need for a performance tire, but one needs to consider the limitations of the rest of the car



that is why i put the RE750 on the bmw and not the S0-3 - that car will never need the S0-3, and actually would drive worse with it - while it might corner a bit better, it would wander a lot more, and be a rougher ride, and with the stock suspension, would probably be a bit twitchy when the tire flexed



ultimate performance is not the only thing to be considered in choosing a tire on a street car, and my gut says that a y over a w on this car on 16s is gilding the lily

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