[shelby987]

I am a new member here, and I am looking for a bit of advice. I just called the local shop that I have seen recommended to replace the timing belt / balancer belt on my new-to-me 968, and the estimate was $1,900...I was prepared for $1,000....but at twice that, I am thinking this is a job I am feeling better about tackling myself! Is there anyone local who has already gone though this that might be able to lend a hand?



Also, I have seen a lot of threads on here about alternative tools for checking tension, but no definitive results on whether any of them are adequate replacements for the porsche specific tool.



All belts, Water pump, and tensioners were new 7 yrs/25k miles ago....am I due for new everything, or just belts?

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[tamathumper]

Welcome. While opinions may vary, I'd say you're due for new everything. My belts one year ago with a bunch of other stuff cost only $1500, and that included water pump, thermostat, etc., IIRC.

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[shelby987]

Update: I got a quote emailed to me without replacing the water pump and thermostat I am looking at $880 with new rollers, tensioner, OE timing belt, and a gates balance belt and new AC and PS belt.....this is much more in line with what I was hoping for. The shop says if they don't replace the waterpump they cannot warranty the repair, should I be concerned? Is the water pump really only good for 25k miles?

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[Chris Vais]

I just had mine done, along with all of the seals and the front of the engine and it came to about $1300. i did not do the water pump as it is relatively new.

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[robadams56]

I had mine done a year ago without the water pump and it was about $850. I have heard the water pumps are pretty reliable and that it only saves you the labor of having to go back in should it fail in the future. If your's is fairly new I would just do the belts....but that's just my opinion.

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[tamathumper]

If the water pump seizes and takes a belt or two with it, it could be a real bummer. For a few hundred bucks, I opted for a new one this time around. Nobody knows when or if it will fail, and rebuilt and new ones can fail within a few thousand miles according to Internet lore. That one is up to you.

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[shelby987]

The price difference between with and without the water pump and thermostat was +$1,050....I will call to confirm if I have lost something in translation, but to me, that is a pretty big difference, and if internet lore has new and rebuilt units failing in a few thousand miles....why wouldn't I stick with one that has been trouble free for 25k miles? (the devil you know..... kinda thing)

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[Chris Vais]

The disassembly procedure to change the timing and balance shaft belts is the same as for the water pump. If you elect to do the water pump as well your additional cost should be the cost of the pump, thermostat, coolant and labor to install the pump and pressure test the coolant system. You may end up changing some of the coolant hoses as well. I wonder if the estimate was doubling up on the disassembly labor?

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[vliegwielolaf1234]

My advice change de watepump rollers tensionersand belt's ,low milage is not always a good thing .

first seals and grease wil deteriorate over time , also bearrings wil sink thru their greasefilm when sitting for long periods of time making metal to metal contact , and could fail in i short period of time when put to use .

In case of wheelbearrings no big thing they get noisy and you change them , in case of the waterpump if it fail's lot's off $$ to repair you engine .

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[shelby987]

the car wasn't sitting for long periods of time, it simply wasn't driven long distances. My understanding is the previous owner used it on the regular, but never really left town with it.

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[DaveN]

25K on a water pump is nothing, you will be replacing your belts in another 40K/4 years any way so I would do the pump then. There is a DIY in the making from Flash, one of the site owners, so if your handy with a wrench it will be cheap to do it your self. It has been quite time consuming but he does promiss it will show up when he gets production time, I hear James Cameron and he are working on the final cut of the 3D version, can't wait <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/biggrin.png" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[tamathumper]

There's a DIY in the making?

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[flash]

lol - yeah, but i keep getting sidetracked. i'll explain it all soon, but it has been a very interesting journey lately

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[shelby987]

At the moment I am saving my $$ for the tune-up parts I have listed in another thread, I feel pretty good about the water pump based on the past history of the car. Normally I would be changing the belt in my driveway, and if it took a couple of weeks, so be it......but this is a convertible and I just want to be able to jump in and drive ASAP.....so I am gonna bite the bullet and leave that to the pro's......the tune up, motor mounts, GSS fix, and brake squeal will all be my problem once she is on the road and running with new belts!

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[Ceenit]

Where are you getting it done? I'm in Charlotte and about due for belts/rollers. It would be worth a drive if I can get it all done for $850?



Thx

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[shelby987]

I am having it done at European Performance, I already have a stack their of receipts from the previous owner, he had almost all of the service done there during his ownership.....the tech knew the car while we were talking on the phone, so there is some comfort in that. I will report back once the job is done. I would make one point, with the 1,500 mile tension re-adjustment, you may want to find a shop closer, unless you plan on either coming back to raleigh in a couple of weeks, or doing the adjustment yourself.....and there is an additional fee for the adjustment, it is not included in the initial install fee.



Overall, I was very impressed with the prices they have on the estimate, I checked the part prices against most of the major parts houses recommended here, and there seems to be less than a 10% mark-up (which is a wash, since I would pay shipping anyway), so far very pleased.....I am not used to other people working on my cars, so I am a bit nervous about the experience.....but they were recommended by others on here, so that helps.



Ceenit, let me know if you end up this way!

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[jfrahm]

I personally am not on the bandwagon of replacing belts due to age (until that age is perhaps 10 years or so) at least on cars with dynamic belt tensioners like the 968. In your case I'd have a peek at the belts and see if they appear to be in good order and if so, fix something else. On a 944 Turbo or NA the belt is skinny and there is no compensation for the temperature and wear changes to the belt so it makes more sense in that case. Likewise a car that is tracked or heavily modified, the belt would warrant more attention.



That being said it is always possible that shops will skip work and it'd be good to verify if the previous work was actually performed. One of my S2's had the belts and water pump replaced shortly before I got the car, and after the water pump impeller spun I removed a 12 year old 140K mile water pump from the car that had never been replaced so it was clear someone got taken for a ride.



In your case I'd want to see the belts to verify their condition and also the variocam ramps. I'd consider replacing the heater valve if it's OEM. The usual other stuff.



Cheers,

-Joel.

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[flash]

lol - well, then you can probably join those of us who have had failures due to age. the list is long and distinguished.



it's the change in elasticity that is the problem, and i don't know anybody who has the tools to test that. when it gets stretched it slips. when it gets hard it snaps or shreds. it's really no different than tires, and we all know they are trash after 6 years, and often less, even if they just sat there. it's not just whether or not they hold air.



it's a very expensive gamble if you guess wrong, but a relatively inexpensive repair if you are proactive.

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[jfrahm]

Well sure there is a point where age takes it's toll but unless you leave it out in the sun or expose it to ozone or chemicals or something I do not think it is anywhere near the concern people make it out to be. I have pulled some timing belts that were in surprisingly good shape at 15 years old and well over 100K miles, or in the case of my A8 10 years old and 100K miles. It was in good shape, I probably still have it somewhere.



The materials they make these belts out of has evolved a great deal, some of the concerns of 25 years ago are no longer warranted.

-Joel.

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[flash]

again, you cannot just hold the belt say "it looks fine to me". you have the check the elasticity.



a good analogy would be the stack of envelopes i found in a box the other day. it had a rubber band on it. the rubber band was still intact after 20 years of being in that box, and "looked" fine. it was fine right up until i touched it. i barely moved it and it snapped. looking at it after that showed it was dried out and had lost its elasticity.



in belts and tires, it is heat and oxygen that cause cross linking between polymer chains, causing the rubber to harden. the scission of those polymer chains then reduces elasticity.



side note: warmer climates accelerate the aging process.



you cannot compare one model of car to another. you cannot even compare a 944 to a 968. the frictional forces that generate heat, which creates the cycling issues, are very different. our car is very hard on belts.



heating a cooling further exacerbates the cycle. a car that is started and stopped and driven short distances will generate just as much of this as one that is driven long distances. the belt heats up and cools down at the same rate for a 5 mile drive as it does for a 200 mile drive.



while a tracked car may generate more friction on the belts due to the higher rpms, and thereby increase heat, a car that sits in traffic could easily generate more direct heat, as the under hood temps can soar while sitting still.



as for technology changing, it certainly has not changed in the last 5 years to the point of eliminating this as a problem. there have been a dozen documented cases in the last 3 years here on this board alone, let alone counting any of the ones that have happened elsewhere.



think what you want. however, it would be incredibly irresponsible for us to ignore the reality and all of the recorded incidents, and recommend anything other than to change them every 3 years.

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