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Stereo Experts I need your advice
#21

only if they are very low THD and high efficiency units



my incliniation for normal consumer stuff would be that for whatever the max is on the speaker, that you have that RMS on the amp



of course, there are oddball speakers that have a low operating range and high max handling, that throw this all to hell



but, the bottom line is, if you like it, leave it alone
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94 Midnight Metallic Blue Cab Porsche 968 w/deviating cashmere/black interior and WAY too many mods to list - thanks to eric for creating www.968forums.com



"It isn't nearly as expensive to do it right as it is to do it wrong."
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#22

The other thing to keep in mind when looking at power ratings and speaker handling capabilities is the basic fact that all amplifiers, no matter what the power rating, will eventually clip and distort. Under most circumstances, that begins to happen at the halfway point. I never recommend turning anything up over halfway...if you run the volume/output/gain at 50% and it isn't loud enough, then you probably would be better off with a larger amp. True, more efficient speakers will sound louder but that's due to other factors, not power alone. Remember in Spinal Tap, their amps went to 11 !



Silvy, not a bad idea. The factory tweeters and mounting cups actually have the tweeters angled in towards the listener as I found out just last night. Also, the mounting cup is keyed so you can't mount it upside down and angle it away from you...pretty slick. I'm using the factory cup and custom mounting a new tweeter in there and will be able to conceal everything using the factory grill/assembly.



I will post pics of the door project later...still in the dremel phase as I write this!



- Darryl
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#23

i haven't found the tweeters to be particularly lacking - of all the speakers, they bug me the least - a bit harsh at 3k, and directional enough to add sibilance very abrubtly when pushed, but otherwise not bad - pretty easily eq'd at any rate



i have thought about doing what they did in the denali though - they have the tweeters actually shooting at the windshield - i have the bose system in there, and they are using the direct reflect concept, like in the 301
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94 Midnight Metallic Blue Cab Porsche 968 w/deviating cashmere/black interior and WAY too many mods to list - thanks to eric for creating www.968forums.com



"It isn't nearly as expensive to do it right as it is to do it wrong."
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#24

Silvy968 is exactly right on overdriving the speakers. Speakers are more easily damaged by underpowering them as opposed to overpowering.
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#25

This thread, in my opinion, has some bad or unclear info in it.



Let's say and individual has a 4x50 watt rms amp and a 4" component set up front that handles 50wrms/100wpeak. That's fine. To set the gains, turn them all the way down. Turn up the head unit until you begin to hear some clipping or distortion. Now, back this off a few notches (1/4 turn, 3 dB, however it's marked). Next, go to the amp and turn each gain up independently. Again, when you start to hear distortion/clipping, back off a little. This should give you approximate max volume.



If you are just going to use head unit power, try to get one with a decent rms power number (note that the new Alpines have more strict measurements than the older ones or most other brands), speakers with good (maybe 90dB+) sensitivity ratings, and don't crank it up wide open.



In any case, try to isoate the front wave from the back wave of the speaker as much as possible, as well as eliminating leaks and moving/rattling panels in whatever "enclosure" (door, panel) it's in.



In any case, getting correct sound in a car is tough, especially if trying to keep it looking relatively stock.



-Bart
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#26

it's definitely a tough area to explain, and it's problematic to speak in absolutes



neither overdriving or underdriving is good, and both have their inherant ups and downs - it really comes down to the user and their abilities



overdriving can be a lot worse than underdriving though, especially in a car, because it can happen before you can do anything about it - been there, done that



underdriving is bad, but you can hear it long before it does damage - as harsh as this may sound, in reality, if your'e not on the ball enough to turn it down when it distorts, then you probably shouldn't be messing with this kind of thing to begin with



underdriving will generally cause more expensive damage though, since it usually also involves clipping the amp



i am not a fan though of dialing back amps, though in some applications, it is necessary - i wouldn't do that in a PA, or in a theatre or home system, but in a car, where there is so much else going on that prevents you from hearing a problem, or correct matching isn't possible, it can be the safe thing to do
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94 Midnight Metallic Blue Cab Porsche 968 w/deviating cashmere/black interior and WAY too many mods to list - thanks to eric for creating www.968forums.com



"It isn't nearly as expensive to do it right as it is to do it wrong."
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#27

Well I am no Audio engineer or even a Mechanical engineer, but from my days as a stereo installer, the most common problems we had with speakers was that they were being driven by low power head units or over rated amps with no real watts. People want good sound AND they want to hear it so they turn up the system, espicially at HWY speeds, then wala....broken cone.





I overdrive my speakers, for maximum efficiency. I guess if I tried I could turn the volume and the gain all the way up and blow them,..... but I will try to be on the ball enough to catch it first.



I like messing with this kind of thing,.... why should one not? Is it too complex for us to deal with?



Leonard
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#28

for some people, yes, absolutely it is too complicated - putting together a good system requires a reasonable understanding of how components work together, and the environment in which they will be working



tuning it and operating it is beyond many, especially when you get into decks with EQs - far too often people start tweaking the controls, without regard to what it is doing, and end up just wrecking the sound, and then being frustrated, and blaming it on the gear



the key to this whole overdrive/underdrive thing, is not to choose a high power speaker in the first place, in an effort to make things sound better - that is the single biggest mistake i see people make - they run right out and buy some good speakers, because that is the less expensive, and less involved way to "upgrade" the system, but fail to understand component matching - then, they find are in a position where they have actually made things worse, and have to continue swapping out gear, and spending more money



the factory speakers really aren't that bad - but, they can only handle a few watts - change to a high power deck, and you run into trouble - add an amp, and you have the same problem



most often, especially with the stock units, the deck is the real fall down point, but too often people don't want to change that out, and are stuck with less than optimal sound no matter what they do



swap out the speakers only, and if you choose wrong, and choose ones that needs a lot of power to drive them, the stock system may not work well with the new speakers



as an installer, you've seen both ends of the spectrum, and understand component matching - have fun - play around - there are a lot of good combinations out there



i'm finally getting close to what i want
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94 Midnight Metallic Blue Cab Porsche 968 w/deviating cashmere/black interior and WAY too many mods to list - thanks to eric for creating www.968forums.com



"It isn't nearly as expensive to do it right as it is to do it wrong."
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#29

Since I do not have a head unit with a graphic eq I do not know if they can cut as well as boost gain.

Just a heads up if they can boost. Do not boost an equalizer to flatten out the audio spectrum. In a professional control room there is only the ability to cut the bumps down. If you boost the dips and cut the bumps you will get phase distortion on adjacent bands and the system will sound scratchy and have no mid range balls. The sound will not sound smooth although it will read flat on an acoustic measuring device.

If these graphics can not boost, as Emily Latella would say, " never mind"
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#30

very good point - i probably should have mentioned that when i was talking about how it can easily be made worse
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94 Midnight Metallic Blue Cab Porsche 968 w/deviating cashmere/black interior and WAY too many mods to list - thanks to eric for creating www.968forums.com



"It isn't nearly as expensive to do it right as it is to do it wrong."
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