OK,
Got the 93 Black Coupe on Friday and it is awesome! But the stereo isn't.
I asked for advice before and was thoroughly confused. I went to a higher end place today and below is a summary of equipment they said I would need. My goal is to have good sound without chopping away at doors or having some big box in my trunk. They say and showed me that the amp will fit under the passenger seat. Is this a good set up with a good price? Thanks everyone.
Alpine CD9856
AMP Alpine PDX 4.150
Front speakers MB Quart?
Rear speakers RX47
Wiring - Monster Cable BAP500
Harness and Antenna Adapter
with labor estimate is $1753 +tax
Steve
You know, when I was a younger buck I would have wanted to do that. Now, I have a coupe with the 10 speaker system that still lets me get my ya-ya's out with only a newer head unit installed (basically a bolt-up since the original must have died) and a cab with the crappier 6 speaker system and this super-duper Alpine head unit thing with lots of power and all the whistles but I still really just can't be bothered with trying to make it better. The house has the stereo for the rock concerts. In the car, I want to hear the news, some tunes, the traffic around me and the car (last two are the most important). I generally hate it when a boom box goes by with more stereo money into it than is needed. Just my point of view.
Now, if you want to get into it you need power (I recommend amps with at least 2x the power rating of the main speakers, 50x4 will deafen you with reasonably efficient speakers), decent speakers and a good equalizer to fix up the quirks. An amplified bass tube will push the low frequencies into the 40-50Hz range. Rock on.
[quote name='Kim' date='May 7 2006, 07:55 PM']You know, when I was a younger buck I would have wanted to do that. Now, I have a coupe with the 10 speaker system that still lets me get my ya-ya's out with only a newer head unit installed (basically a bolt-up since the original must have died) and a cab with the crappier 6 speaker system and this super-duper Alpine head unit thing with lots of power and all the whistles but I still really just can't be bothered with trying to make it better. The house has the stereo for the rock concerts. In the car, I want to hear the news, some tunes, the traffic around me and the car (last two are the most important). I generally hate it when a boom box goes by with more stereo money into it than is needed. Just my point of view.
Now, if you want to get into it you need power (I recommend amps with at least 2x the power rating of the main speakers, 50x4 will deafen you with reasonably efficient speakers), decent speakers and a good equalizer to fix up the quirks. An amplified bass tube will push the low frequencies into the 40-50Hz range. Rock on.
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Thanks for your respone Kim. ..and incidentally I wanted to be a marine biologist. Settled with a bio degree and now going for my MBA. Where can I see pictures of your cars? When I click view vehicles, it takes me to an error page.
As far as your comments forgive me as this is all like a foreign language. Are you saying you think it is too much $ because I was hoping to keep everything below $1K. In addition, is the system they recommend not good enough or over the top? Like you, I want to hear traffic, the engine, but there are some times where it would be fun to hear my favorite songs on a nice road trip.
Thanks again, Steve
My question to you is.. why MB Quart? Yes, they are hand-made, german speakers, but there are other speakers that you will give you more "bang for your buck" and german too <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> ie JL. For $600+ per pair of components.. that's a bit too extreme for me. But, to each his own.. right?
First, you have RX47's going the back. I believe these are the Boston Acoustics 4" two-way speakers. These will not fit in the back. The rears are 6 1/2" with a tweeter.
You Ultimately need 4 component sets, and if MB Quart's are used will cost a crap load of money. They will sound good, but the amp you listed costs 699 (crutchfield.com) and with 1200 dollars ( give or take a bit) in speakers will put you way over your price with labor.
I'm not trying to say you shouldn't go this way, but given the quality of speakers, you should go with a better head. The Alpine CDA-9853 is a better deal, you get a 7 band graphic eq. This will help you get the best sound out of those speakers or whatever ones you choose.
Now, while i was typing this i realized... do you have the 10 speaker system? I don't know if all coupes came with this option. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/dry.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />
Who needs a soundsystem <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/laugh.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> .. just roll down the windows and listen to the growl from the engine.
Rene
Edit.. 50X4 is the max wattage. You need to look at RMS wattage. a 50X4 headunit will only output 18X4 RMS to a speaker.. this will suffice for stock speakers but damage others if not within the wattage range.. that amp you listed is killer though. 18X4.. i can fart louder than a speakers powered by that.
I have played with several different speakers. The JL's have always been basier, while the MB's and A/D/S are much clearer. I am not a person of quantity, but a person of quality. A good sound system is going to cost money. Cutting corners is cutting quality. Your best components are going to be starting at $300 and going up to over a $1000. I love the A/D/S 325's, MB Reference, etc... The problem with the 968/951 is the 10 speaker sound system has what, two 4" and two tweeters up front with a 5.25" out back. Removing the factory 3 amps and condensing to one is going to drop some weight I was assume, so your going to make it up somewhere. I love the Infinity all-in-one subs, as well as the Bazooka's. You can get a Bazooka tube, 8" that weighs like 35lbs...maybe even less. I would do MB or A/D/S fronts, as they are both going to make up your tweeters as well, then do a nice 5.25 out back...something to equalize your fronts. The car has a good chamber for sound, so just a little sub will make up for all your speakers. Some of the best sound systems I have heard cost upwards of $10,000 when all said and done! Don't skimp out on a head unit either...it can really make a difference as well.
front: 5 1/4" woofer, a 3" mid and 1" tweeter
Rear: 6 1/2" woofer, and 1" tweeter
right, the JL's are bassier, but place a filter on it.. no more bass. I have the filter set at 150Hz in the front and 125Hz in the rear.. This is also where the 5 band parametric or 7 band graphic eq come in handy. I have a 200 watt Bazooka 8" tube to power from 35 - 150 HZ... it's awesome. I'm powering the JL XR evolution 6 1/2 and 5 1/4's with the Alpine V12 75 X 4 RMS at 4 ohms. It's pretty kicking and i wouldn't choose anything else.
The system all together with 75 X 4 Rms Alpine V12, 4 sets of components 5 1/4 and 6 1/2, and the bazooka tube ran me about ~ 1100. That's not counting the headunit , patchcables, and other misc wiring. I do admit that good sound does cost a few pennies and I, as a musician, want good sound. There are some really good sounding speakers out there for only 100 bucks a pair. Go listen. FWIW.. JL is German also.. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/cool.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />
ok - first off, don't get lost in "wattage wars" - the speakers you can put in the front can only handle about 25 watts max, so anything more than that is foolish at best
as an audio engineer, i see this stuff happen all the time - people get caught up in the hype of specs, the sales pitch, too much mumbo jumbo from magazines, and end up spending way more than they need to - in the end they couldn't hear the difference in a car anyway
second - it's not about watts - it's about signal to noise ratio, efficiency, and tone controls that can adjust things for the cabin
third - steer clear of a graphic EQ with less than 15 bands - it just won't be able to do a good job, and end up muddying the sound - you want a parametric - there is a bit of a learning curve, but it is much more capable of tuning the car
if you are on a budget, go to best buy and have them put in a pioneer 4700 or better - it will run you a bit over 200 bucks installed - it will have a 3 band parametric eq, and an adjustable bass and treble that almost make it a 5 band parametric - this deck will put out 22watts RMS x 4 and be fully capable of powering the front and back speakers if you have a 6 speaker setup
i like the alpine line too - the alpine has more features, but a bit less power, and at more than double the cost - i opted for the pioneer because i did not want external amps - i have a 6 speaker setup and wanted to keep the weight down - i have no complaints - i hit over 100db clean with what i have - it's all about the speakers matching the power, and most importantly, good tuning
if you have more speakers than the 6 setup, then things are going to bet a bit pricier, because you would need to add amps
if you need more sub, things are going to get a bit pricier, because you would need to add a sub and amp, but that would only cost tops about $350 out the door
infinity reference 512i is a good replacement for the factory front speaker - leave the tweeters alone if they work - they are fine - the rears leave you some options - look for something that goes down to 40hz or so, and is set to operate in the 5-50watt range
all in all though, there is absolutely no reason to spend more than a grand on a system for this car installed - properly tuned, you can get every bit as much quality out of less expensive products
drop me an email if you are having a tough time - if you like, once you get it installed, if you come to the gathering this month in newtown, i would be happy to tune it for you
flash great info thanks. . .
no worries - sound is VERY subjective - everyone's ears are different - there are some physical constants, but really it's about what you want for yourself - there is a reason that sound image alteration is called "coloring"
i'm not slagging the "better" equipment - it's just that you really need to match components more than you need high power top end stuff - this car is not particularly good for audio to begin with - speaker position sucks, high mids are a drag, and especially, in a hardtop, you have real low mid issues too
you can get 95% of the way there by doing what i did - the other 5% is going to cost real money though, and unfortunately most people wouldn't notice it
here's a test - if you think MP3 sounds good - don't buy expensive gear - you're wasting your money
Here Here to the MP3 quote, Flash. I have to educate my home audio customers in much the same way as people still insist on connecting their iPods to 10-15K home theatre systems. Anyway, I digress...
This weekend I completed the rear channels of my install/upgrade. I have a cab and you only get 4x6 in the factory rear locations. I replaced the original Blaupunkt coax with Polk Momo 4x6 plate style speakers that rate lows down to 73HZ...not great but wait...I didn't want to do any drastic cuts and I looked at the Bazooka tubes but wasn't keen on sacrificing trunk space...I found Kenwood makes a low profile enclosed self powered sub with a passive radiator (6.5") that's rated at 150W peak/75W RMS. I opted for two - one behind each front seat and they fit very nicely without obstructing opening the rear glove boxes. I'm not using them as subs but rather as woofers to complement the 4x6 plates. I installed a passive crossover with a high pass at 100HZ so nothing lower gets routed to the 4x6 plates and the results were amazing. Essentially, I have a 3 way component system. The Kenwood subs have a crossover built into them as well so I can match their response to that of the 4x6 and the external crossover. I can obtain a much louder volume and there is no noticable distortion due to voice coil movement issues on these little Polks since there is no real low frequencies going there. The first sign of distortion is coming from the head unit amps clipping - not the speakers!
I opted for an Alpine CDA-9847 (last year's version) which is 50W peak/18RMS - a significant improvement from the previous 25W peak/12W RMS Alpine cassette head unit. I still have the factory speakers installed in the doors and hope to get to that this weekend. By fading front to rear, the comparison makes you laugh out loud. The factory drivers in the doors SUCK. Mine are Nokia and horribly midrange heavy. My passenger tweeter is out and drivers 3" mid is foam rotted.
I realize this is slightly off track, but point to the story is, don't waste money unless you plan on entering car stereo contests and as others have mentioned, this isn't the car to do that with. I wanted to make as few mods as possible, use factory locations for stealthiness, and spend only a moderate amount. My entire system is going to be in around $550.00 and I've well exceeded even my own expectations. I'll be driving around with the fader set to full rear and not even using the fronts for now and even that is a drastic improvement over what I started with. Now to tweak the bass settings on the Kenwood units and get the parametric EQ tweaked. The CDA-9847 has 4 low and 4 high bands to custom tailor the center frequencies of the boost/cut adjustments and it is very flexible. I'm striving for nice tight bass with decent volume level and it's great having them right behind the seats.
More details to come...hear it in Newtown, flash. Looking forward to talking audio!
Here's a shot of the Polk Momo 4x6 plates which rock and the Alpine head unit.
- Darryl
Well, i'm just speaking from experience. I just replaced the headunit in my 10 speaker S2, and it didin't suffice. Kept the stock speakers, and they sounded like crap. This time i wanted something louder, much louder. I realize that most of what i bought was overkill, but i think it sounds amazing. There may have been better alternatives, however, it's just money right??? <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/tongue.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />
cool - i'm looking forward to hearing the kenwoods - always wondered what they sounded like - i'm looking for sub, but those whould do exactly what you are describing
i replaced the 4x6s i had (which were yamaha) with pioneer 4x6s that go down to 45hz - i enclosed those - much better now - they are handling things down to about 70hz - then the sub will kick in below that
i'd love to have the extra bands of parametric of the alpine, and have no issue changing it - was only concerned about the power loss - i'm really looking forward to hearing the unit
see you there
I just updated the system on my cab. I kept the head unit (Kenwood KDC X879 (ebay for $399.00). I went with the Infinity Kappa 5" separates ($119.00 ebay) up front, the Infinity Kappa 5X7($85.00 ebay) multi element in the rear, Kenwood KSE SW1($160.00 ebay) powered sub and an MTX 2/4/5 channel amp. It sounds pretty awesome all for under a grand...
Just to add my 2 cents...The amplifier wattage should exceed the power handling capability of the speakers by 3dB, or 100%. This will prevent distortion in the system. Distortion is caused by too little power, not too much.
Too bad it's illegal to wear headphones while driving, you wouldn't want to drown out a siren. As if you could hear one with 10 speakers, 2 bass bins playing the latest rap top 10. But if it was legal, just think how easy car audio would be!
Great advice Flash. I would run, not walk, away from that audio dealer. It's amazing that this country is so awash with cash that theives like those guys can stay in business.
Ditto on the whole MP3 thing. My favorite musician pal is an Ipod junkie and I'm forced to listen to it through her "home" sutup when I'm there; yuk. Remember GIGO in the early computer days?
brian - when you say 3db, i assume you mean input db and not spl in the cabin
To Clarify:
Yes, 3 db input, or twice the power.
A 25 watt speaker should have a 50 Watt amp behind it, and so on.
When you add 3 db of SPL energy into a space you will theoretically double the power.
For you camera guys 3 db is equal to an 'f' stop on the lens.
i get the head room idea
50w peak, yes, i agree - 50w rms, no, i don't
i've popped way too many speakers doing that, and had to turn the gains down on the amps to the max ratings on the speakers to avoid it (man, am i glad i have a watt meter) - i have been better served by matching peak speaker to rms on the amp
if the amp is clean enough, and the speakers are efficient enough, i have been doing well by getting them closer to matching rms numbers
now, this is in a car system, in a home or studio system, i follow the 2:1 rule pretty closely, because i can monitor things much more closely
still though, it's hard in these cars, because most of the speakers we can run only handle 25 watts, and i am having a heck of a time finding an amp small enough to fit in the front of the car, that isn't too big in wattage - space is very limited, and not running the deck power means needing 4 channels of amplification, without even getting into the subs - i miss the old alphasoniks
that being said, i am running a deck that is 22w rms x 4, and 50w x 4 peak, into speakers that can handle 25watts
It occurred to me that with turbo'd cars becoming more popular, I am seeing 'A' pillar gauge mounting clusters.
Has anyone thought of mounting a tweeter at ear/eye height in these gauge pieces? The stereo image would be better and as the tweeters more closer to your ears, the volume goes up for the same wattage input.
Anyone seen or done this?
Ouch, so flash, the speakers i have are rated at 60 watts RMS. I know nothing about car audio.. just how it works. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> Are you saying i need an amp that pushes 120 watts RMS per channel? I can crank the headunit all the way up distortion free. It's loud, but nothing compared to the 1600 watts RMS head into my 8X10 <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/biggrin.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />