[flash]

ok - funny in my room - lear will rip his motor apart without batting an eye, but doesn't want to pull the belly pan to peek at the rack. that sounds like something i would do.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[Lear35A]

Hah. At least I ripped the motor apart for a reason. My steering is perfect. Tracks straight. Steering wheel straight. Exactly 1 1/2 turns L to R. I ain't touchin nothin on my steering. Nothin. At this point this is an intellectual exercise for me. I will be under there shortly as I still have to get my splitter painted. But for now I'm saving my back.



BTW, can someone refer me to where in the workshop manual it describes using this rack centering method???

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[flash]

lol - just poking at you. i am the same way about some stuff. i just put it off or avoid it, regardless of how simple.



it's int he 944 workshop manual, as many things are. porsche, in their infinite wisdom, assumed you already had that, and did not need to reprint things that were the same between the 2 cars.



anyway, it's on 48-011. it even uses a special tool.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[Cloud9...68]

Yes, I looked in the 968 manual as well, and couldn't find anything about R & R'ing the steering rack.



Given all the variables (positioning of the steering gear inside the tower casting, positioning of the rack inside the housing, position of the steering wheel, the latter two of which can easily move during the tedious install process), getting the rack to line up correctly, allowing the steering wheel to point straight when the wheels are pointing forward, should be about as likely as getting the cam timing perfect using just a ball of string and some week-old bubble gum. And yet, this is exactly what happened the last time I installed my rack, and apparently it has happened to Lear multiple times, which has me utterly baffled. The fact I took my rack apart and put it back together adds an extra variable that Lear didn't have, but still, the odds of getting everything straight without using the tapered locking bolt seems to be mathematically impossible. I must be missing something - definitely wouldn't be the first time!



Yes, I'll definitely take some pictures of the site hole where the tapered bolt goes in.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[Lear35A]

Thanks for the reference. I just read it several times. I know I am beating a dead horse here, but nowhere in this workshop manual does it say anything about recentering the steering wheel. The only reference to using the special tool to lock the rack is in regards to to replacing the whole tie-rod assemblies. Furthermore, the special tool is only mentioned in the section for manual steering gear. It is not mentioned in the power steering section at all.



What is does say in the power steering section (48-7) is "2. Slide shaft on steering gear in correct position (steering wheel and steering gear in center position)..." {Note: I realize it says to have the steering gear in center position, but it does not refer to using the special tool in this power steering section. I am NOT arguing, only pointing out what is and is not in the workshop manual}

and then "6. Adjust toe, if necessary."



Like it or not, the workshop manual way to do this means putting the u-joint on the steering splines with everything straight as opposed to correcting things by removing the steering wheel.



BTW, interesting that the picture on 48-011 shows a RHD assembly.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[Lear35A]

Each time I assembled I did my best to have the front wheels and steering wheel straight when I slid the u-joint onto the splined shaft coming out of the steering gear. Therefore it's reasonable to assume the rack was close to being centered. If it was off by a little bit, it's no big deal. Doing the toe adjustment would fix that, and the alignment guy will make sure you end up with a straight steering wheel.



Frankly I don't think that any of us in this discussion are wrong. There's just more than one way to skin this cat and end up at the same point.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[bombfactory]

Cloud thanks for the tip about Travis at Rennbay. I'll hit him up with a few questions if, once I flip my ps pump vanes and get the car back on the road, it still steers the same. I would think there's no way the problem can be rack-related, as the steering felt exactly the same even after putting the new rack in there. So it seems I've replaced a perfectly good rack, as it wasn't leaking or anything when I pulled it.



A note for anyone installing a replacement rack from AutoZone - you'll likely receive a 944 rack, like I did. It fits fine, but the groove in the splined shaft coming out of the steering gear is 180˚ off from a 968 rack. I had to flip my steering wheel 180˚ once everything was together.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[flash]

lear - not sure how you are missing the instruction.



it says "center steering gear in center position using special tool 9116" and clearly shows that tool in an illustration. it even gives you dimensions for the gear to end lengths, which would verify center.



it is a left had drive car in the picture. the rack is shown from the driver position, not the front of the car.



adjusting tie rods to center the steering wheel, which is what alignment shops do, is WRONG. that can leave you with more steering gear on one side than the other, which will change the number of turns to the left versus right. this will affect your turning radii. they typically do that though out of laziness. it's a pain in the butt to set the caster correctly, so the wheel is often off a tick when driving. i make them do it over and over again until i can drive for 1/2 mile without touching the steering wheel, and the wheel is centered. my alignments cost me $300 though.



to do it right, you start centered - period. then you move on. frankly you should start with the steering wheel centered with the rack centered, but i do the steering wheel last so i only have to clean up once, rather than having to clean up, get in the car, center the steering wheel, and then get back under the car. instead, i do everything under the car at once, and then clean up, center the steering wheel, and then go drive.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[Lear35A]

I am not missing anything. The special tool is only mentioned and shown on pages 48-011 and 48-05. The pages that start with "0" are for "Removing and installing manual steering gear". That title is on the bottom of the page. Please refer me to a page that has "Removing and Installing Power Steering Gear" at the bottom that mentions this special tool.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[flash]

yup - that's the page and the pic. LHD for sure. seems like pretty clear instructions too. not sure how you are not getting it. center the gear - use the tool - check the measurements - done.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[mbardeen]

I think Lear's problem is the bit where it says "Removing and installing manual steering gear". The procedure is the same for the powersteering gear.



There's a small black threaded plastic cap on the alignment hole. You remove that, get the dimple in the rack aligned with the hole, screw in the tapered bolt to hold the rack centered relative to the housing/car body, then adjust the tie rod ends as Flash has said. Simple as that. No fuss, no mess. Car tracks straight and centered.



Why might you need to adjust the steering wheel? When you take out the pinion gear during the rebuild, it rotates. Getting the flat section on the upper part of the pinion exactly where it was when you started is a PITA. If you don't get it exactly right your steering wheel will be off center.



I opted not to worry about that too much as I knew I'd be replacing the steering wheel anyway and could correct it that way.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[flash]

the problem is likely that the workshop manual is exactly that. a manual for workshops. it is not written like a manual for the novice (like a chilton or something like that would be). it presumes a certain amount of mechanical training and knowledge. it's pretty basic knowledge to any mechanic that the steering rack needs to be centered, and the tie rods essentially the same length on both sides. spelling that out would be like telling the mechanic which direction to turn an open wrench (it's tilted for a reason). i see amateurs doing it backwards all the time, but i never see mechanics doing it backwards. mechanics don't need that information. they already have it. the only reason that it is in the workshop manual at all is because of the dimple and the tool for it.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[Lear35A]

I have no problem at all. I never said the centering tool couldn't be used for a power steering rack. I never said that it would not be a good idea to use the tool on a power steering rack. I was, and continue to be, referenced to a page that is clearly identified as being written for a manual steering rack in a manual that has separate sections for manual and power. I said this tool was never mentioned in the power steering section of the manual, which is correct.

And I will match my mechanical skills/aptitude and ability to read a manual with anyone on this board.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[Lear35A]

[quote name='mbardeen' timestamp='1370968725' post='144122']

Why might you need to adjust the steering wheel? When you take out the pinion gear during the rebuild, it rotates. Getting the flat section on the upper part of the pinion exactly where it was when you started is a PITA. If you don't get it exactly right your steering wheel will be off center.

[/quote]

This makes sense. Section 48 in the workshop manual is not written to take into account disassembly of the steering rack. If that pinion it rotated, then the steering wheel will have a different position when the rack is centered. I agree that in this case the simplest way to fix it is to remove the steering wheel.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[flash]

the procedure is identical. it doesn't matter if the instructions specifically differentiate between the 2 or not.



as i said, the workshop manual is written for trained mechanics. it is not written for weekend warriors. they only put things in the subsequent manual that DIFFER from the previous version. the assumption is that you will do what was previously said, unless specifically told to do otherwise. that's why you have to have both manuals.



as for centering the rack, this is a basic "given" to any professional mechanic. they teach you this in one of the first suspension/braking classes. i can see how the amateur would not automatically know this though. amateurs constantly make assumptions, do things the way they think they should be done, and fail to go to baseline first. this continually creates confusion and problems.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[Eric_K]

Another thing to consider is even with the rack locked on the center dimple, the left/right position of the entire rack can affect how the wheel is centered. Reading between the lines it sounds like Cloud changed the rack bushings. It is possible the rack is in a slightly different position even if he managed to hit all the same splines it was on previously. More likely, the u joint didn't go on to the rack in the same position. Since there are I'd guestimate 48 splines, being one off will move the wheel about 7.5 degrees. I do find it easier to get the u joint on with the rack locked, then only half the equation is trying to rotate.



I doubt many alignment shops center the rack, they just work from a centered wheel. You're unlikely to notice 15 degrees missing from one end of the lock and moved to the other, but everyone will notice if the wheel isn't straight.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[Cloud9...68]

[quote name='mbardeen' timestamp='1370968725' post='144122']

Why might you need to adjust the steering wheel? When you take out the pinion gear during the rebuild, it rotates. Getting the flat section on the upper part of the pinion exactly where it was when you started is a PITA. If you don't get it exactly right your steering wheel will be off center.

[/quote]



Yes, that's what I think happened in my case. I had a lot of difficulty getting the steering gear back in what I thought (but turned out not to be) the correct position. It's very hard to estimate exactly how it's supposed to go into the tower casting to line up correctly with the steering coupler. Plus, as I said, it's not hard to move the rack (the shaft inside the assembly that is turned by the steering gear, or pinion) during the process. It's likely that I'm only off by one tooth, but it's enough to make the wheel noticeably off.



Eric, I don't think the fact that I replaced the main bushing (the one closest to the tower casting, on the drivers side) is a factor. The rack is a very tight fit left-to-right on the crossmember, so there's very little opportinuty to put it on incorrectly. I didn't have this steering wheel orientation problem the last time I R & R'd my rack; for some reason, this go-around was more of a struggle, and I probably missed it by a tooth, as I said.



Now, my big fear is how much of a struggle it will be to remove the steering wheel. For those who have done it, do you have any suggestions as to the type of tool to use to remove those torx bolts on the back side of the wheel? I've never made a major effort to remove the wheel, but I have made a half-hearted effort before changing my mind, and those torx bolts seem to be very tight back there, and there isn't a whole lot of access, so I want to make sure I don't ruin one (or more). Thanks.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[flash]

when you might notice it is at full lock. for example, i have a LOT of caster. if my rack were not centered, i would hit the body on one side at full lock, as the rack would allow the wheel to turn farther in one direction than the other. it could also strain things like the gaitors and such. while i doubt that 15 degrees would cause a problem in most cars, in mine it would. depending on how level the car is, i can already hit the body at full lock when the stars line up just right. i have no room for an off center rack.



just do it right, and don't mickey mouse around



being able to turn the wrench is easy. any idiot can do that. knowing when to turn the wrench is what makes a mechanic.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[Cloud9...68]

Centering the rack at the beginning of the process really makes all kinds of sense, especially since the only possible negative consequence is having to re-set the toe, which is the easiest of the alignment operations.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[flash]

yup. back when i had the MGB, there was only toe set for adjustment. i got very good at setting toe. it's really pretty easy. you shouldn't be afraid to do that one yourself. it isn't that touchy a setting to begin with, unlike camber or caster.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.