[Cloud9...68]

I was over at my very knowledgeable neighbor Gerald's returning a tool I had borrowed, and was explaining to him what I was planning to do with my car. Gerald is one of the most talented amateur mechanics I've ever known, and he's recently rebuilt his 964's engine, and has done a 944 as well. His opinion is that since I'm going to have to take off the front suspension and unbolt the engine mounts to remove the oil pan anyway, I might as well go ahead and remove the engine, because it will make much of the rest of the things I plan to do much easier. These include:



- Installing a new rear main seal

- Replacing the flywheel with an 18 lb SMF from RS Barn

- Putting the clutch back in

- Replacing the oil pan gasket, and the rod bearings

- Removing the lower balance shaft cover, and re-sealing it

- Removing the head to have it refreshed

- Possibly going ahead and replacing the rings (Gerald said he would if it was his car)

- Replacing the belts

- Removing the power steering pump to re-seal it

- Installing upgraded A/C tensioner

- Installing upgraded power steering pump tensioner

- Last, and very far from least, repairing the 8" gash in my firewall



I already have the starter, clutch slave cylinder, clutch fork, and center section of the exhaust off, Gerald said he'd let me borrow his engine hoist, and I know a few people who I think have an engine stand, plus Gerald said he'd be happy to help me with the job. I have room in the garage in front of my car to store the engine.



And then there's the matter of the connecting rods. Since the car is going to see A LOT of track usage, and I will likely add forced induction someday, I have a strong feeling I will be kicking myself if I don't upgrade the rods now. This entails pulling the crank, and having the crank and the new rods balanced as a unit. But on the flip side, between the rings, rods, balancing, and the main bearings (if I pull the crank), the cost of the job is starting to really escalate. But it will still be a lot cheaper than buying a new engine if I ever bust a rod.



What do you guys think? What's left to disconnect to remove the engine? I can think of the torque tube bolts, the radiator hoses, the coil wire, the throttle linkage, the fuel lines (which need to be repaired anyway), and some assorted electrical connections. Any other major items?



My main concern is the air conditioning plumbing. Can it safely be disconnected, given the amount of pressure it's under? Or could I somehow remove the parts of the AC that are attached to the chassis without having to break any connections? Also, would having the engine out make it any easier to install the upgraded power cables? Thanks.

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[firefish]

The air con is easy - loosen the bolts that attach the couplings to the pump a little ( a couple of turns only) and tap gently on the coupling so that it breaks free. At this point gas should start to escape (hzzzzzzzzz) and it will take a while before the system's empty. Simple as that. Don't forget to replace the o-rings.



As for everything else, I would pull the engine. That way you can give everything a close up inspection and replace what's necessary, without having thoughts like "well, it's not mint but it's a bugger to reach so it'll b for now..."



Why not replace pull the head and also replace main bearing and piston rings too?

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[blue968]

If he decides to keep his A/c, how would he recharge it? can you use a can from Autozone with oil in it or just regular Freon without oil.

I plan on pulling my engine soon as well.

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[flash]

if you still have the 92 system in there, i would take this opportunity to change it



as for pulling the engine, it sounds to me like you are headed for a rebuild - i would definitely do that outside the car - just think of all the things that would be easier to do, and how clean it will be when it goes back in - clean is a GOOD thing - it makes detecting leaks much easier

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[Cloud9...68]

The previous owner converted the AC to R134, so that's already been done.



Yes, I guess I'm on that very slippery slope to a full rebuild. I'm a little conflicted over the fact that the engine probably doesn't technically "need" to be rebuilt - I suspect the rings and main bearings are OK, for example, and that a head refresh is probably all I really need to carry me to 200K miles. But the fact that it REALLY needs a new oil pan gasket is what sets up the whole thought process down the path of "Well, if the oil pan is off (which entails unbolting the engine mounts), and the head is off, might as well do the rings too. And if the pistons are out, might as well upgrade the rods, but, according to Pete, that means pulling the crank to have it balanced with the new rods as a unit, which means new main bearings, etc." And given that I'm going to be tracking the car a lot, the parts that are probably OK today may not be in such good shape a year or two down the road.



And yes, I definitely agree that it would be wonderful to have everything out so I can inspect for any remaining leaks, and easily fix them, and then really clean everything. And it will be SO much easier to weld up the firewall with the engine out. I'm also relieved to hear disconnecting the AC isn't too difficult.



OK, I guess I've talked myself into it, and you guys have been no help at all in convincing me that this is a dumb idea <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/tongue.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> .

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[flash]

roflmao - welcome to the club - we're having jackets made next week



seriously though - in the end i think you'll be a lot happier and have a lot more peace of mind about the engine - it will also then be fully prepared for any other upgrades - the good news is that you don't have to do any expensive internal upgrades to prepare for the SC, as any gains from those would be minimal compared to what they do normally aspirated

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[Kim]

Watch the wires if you remove the engine. I left the engine in when I did the head gasket the first time for fear that the wiring harness wouldn't stand it. All the connectors were brittle and failing. Then I got a new harness ($600, 9-Apart north of Toronto) and replaced it when RS Barn did all the stuff for me in the fall.

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[Cloud9...68]

Good point. I'll be very careful around the connectors. I've removed the variocam connector a few times, and it wasn't in bad shape, so hopefully the others are OK. I know the hall sender connector is toast, but that's because it lived above the hot exhaust its whole life. If any of the other connectors are in really bad shape, I wonder if I can just replace them, splicing into the harness.

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[Lear35A]

You can take the engine out and leave the A/C compressor in the engine bay. No disconnecting the freon lines at all.

By the book, the wiring harness comes out with the engine. The plug comes off the DME computer in the passenger footwell and comes out through the firewall. Taking the engine out takes a little time, but it is not that big a deal.

Unfortunately I'm having to do it a second time in just a few months. Sigh.

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[Cloud9...68]

Lear,



Thanks! I was hoping you'd chime in, because I know you've done this recently (sorry about your having to do it again soon <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/sad.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> ). Those are fantastic tips regarding the AC and the DME computer plug. I haven't even looked at the manual; my plan was to remove everything I could think of, and then check the manual to see what I've missed. I think I've got the big stuff all disconnected (engine mounts, clutch, exhaust, heater hose, radiator hoses, throttle linkage, air box, assorted vacuum lines), so hopefully there isn't much left. I hope to pull the engine next weekend. Thanks again.

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[Lear35A]

Few more thing to note. The wiring harness branches at the firewall. One big portion goes through the firewall to the DME as I mentioned. There is a smaller branch that goes to a plug sitting behind the the brake booster. The plug itself sits under a little cover. It takes some poking around to see this. Also note that there are various clips and brakets holding wiring (like going to the A/C compressor and alternator, and holding the clutch tubing to the bell housing. Plus there's the vacuum tubing going to various places. Check things very carefully before and during the engine lift. Oh yeah, don't forget to take lots of pictures (or you'll have to borrow mine). Have fun.

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