[Winston968]

I walked by an Alfa Romeo Brera the other day. Very sexy looking car.
It occurred to me that the rear end is similar to the 968, the way the angles change from the hatch to the bumper.
I did some image manipulation of a side view, and I quite like the clean look. A bit like the original 928.
I expect there would be a lack of downforce at high speed. However, I note that the original 924 didn't have a rear spoiler and its top speed was over 200 km/h. So I imagine it wouldn't be a problem at suburban speeds.
What do you think?

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[benspeeder]

It look a little like my 968 with the 944 hatch...

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[flash]

i like it - big wings are dated looking, though they certainly appeal to the kids

i'd like it even better if the rear glass were gone, and replaced by a rear window and a real trunk lid, but that's not bad

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[Gotter]

too 924-ish... trying to move forward, aren't we? [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif[/img]

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[flash]

moving forward was my point - less is more - most cars are dumping the big wings and going to more subtle things - a lot of the sporty models still have small lip spoilers on the tail, but that's about it - they are pretty much incorporating any aerodynamic function into the body line - even the porsches today have them hidden until a critical speed is reached

since most people don't go much over 100mph, it's really moot and just aesthetic choice - i like the smooth uninterrupted lines

i'd like to see what it looked like from more angles though - i tend to think the rear view might look too "bubblish", which is why i didn't like the rear of the early 928, or the rear of the boxster

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[benspeeder]

Call me a tuner kid even though I'm 44. I love the big wings, always have. But you gotta match it with a fully functional front spoiler - love those indestructable COT spoilers with the cam adjusters.

Never had a car with a big wing though.

Pimpmaster Ben :-)

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[flash]

being a track guy, i also have an affinity for functional devices - however, being a track guy, i don't mix my street car with my track car, and consequently don't apply features of one to the other that won't be used - were it not for the improved cooling, i would not have a front spoiler either

you won't see a 10 speaker surround sound system in my track car either

the right thing on the right car

ferrari certainly has no issue with not having any wings on their street cars (lol - don't even think about calling the F40 a street car) - they don't seem to suffer from their absence either

again though, wings, whether you personally like them or not, and to each his own there, are an item applied to older cars, and have decreased in use over the last 10 years - i like the more updated smoother look on street cars - the pic above looks good from the side

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[DaveN]

When I removed my spoiler to have it painted I really had to take a step back and look at the car. I really liked it without the spoiler but ended up putting it back on because the @ss end looked naked for some reason. Don't get me wrong, that look is good but it has it's place [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif[/img]

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[Gotter]

Being a Cab guy, I can appreciate trying to lose the wing, but I think that the "bulbous" rear hatch countered the wing and vice versa... looks really weird to me without the balance.

To each his own, though. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif[/img]

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[flash]

which is why i said i needed to see more pics from different angles - the profile looks great, but the rear view may not - that's the case with a lot of cars though - view perspective is everything

sometimes it doesn't take much to make a big change either - i deleted the 3rd brake light and rear emblems on the blue car, and the car looks a lot wider

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[PorscheDude]

Install a 924 hatch. No spoiler.
I had thought of doing this a few years back.
I like the clean look.

$40 for a 924 hatch
sell the 968 hatch for $800
put $760 in your pocket.

Less drag to boot...

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[jlm968]

I seriously doubt that the tiny OEM 968 wing generates significant downforce, but I'd bet it creates just enough drag to add a lot of directional stability (like feathers on an arrow). I drove a spoiler-less 924 to North Carolina and back in the early 1980's, and had many occasion later to drive a 944 on extended trips, and the 968 is much, much better on the long'n'twisties. Especially at 100+ (cough-cough, I mean km, of course, cough-cough...)

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[flash]

not likely a lot of down force, though it is curved enough to provide some sort of effect i suppose, but since most people don't drive over 100mph, (believe it or not) they would not see much if any of it

as for directional aerodynamic stability on a car, that is generally provided by vertical surfaces, not horizontal ones (though down force can help there too)- i tend to think the effect you experienced were more the suspension differences than the aerodynamic ones

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[PorscheDude]

I'm sure Porsche did some wind tunnel work on spoiler and aero of the car during development.
There are not a company that just sticks wings on for looks.

I would venture to say, it is more effeceint than the 944 piece it replaced.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[968gene]

I think its a law of aerodynamics that ones's desire for the size and height of a rear spoiler is inversely proportional to one's age.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[968Syncro]

I thought the purpose of the 968 rear spoiler was simply to clean up the air flow to reduce drag and reduce lift.

The 924 Turbo had a lip spoiler much smaller than the 944, might be a very nice alternative for a subtle look. To my eye the rear looks unfinished or empty without some type of spoiler.

   

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[flash]

i think it came in due to the protrusion of the bumper - then they just carried it forward with subsequent models - remember that this car was first designed in the 70s, then revamped a number of times, ending in the design phase while still in the 80s - back then we did silly things like put wings on everything and painted our wheels to match the car - now, most things serve a function

while primarily for marketing aesthetics, as for any function, as i said, it probably does something at very high speeds, but most people never see those - i think i can count on one hand, outside the racer group, the number of people i know that have ever gone over 100 more than once

what it does do for sure is provide a leverage point for somebody to grab onto that thing to close the hatch (wrong thing to do) and resultantly break the hatch pieces

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[jlm968]

Perhaps things are different here in the Motor City region than on the Left Coast, then, because there's rarely a time I drive that I don't exceed 100, even if only briefly. My 968 seems to settle in at that speed, like a good German car should. I think the average driver on the highways around here (I-96, US-23, or MI-14) has the cruise control set at 80. And I've been PASSED in wet weather going 90-100 by the likes of Lincoln Town Cars.

Be that as it may, last night over a beer I shared this subject with a buddy of mine who happens to be an aerodynamics instructor at UM (he's Ukrainian, undergraduated from that country's National Aviation University). He's a car nut, likes his Viper, his '63 split-window Vette, and his Insight hybrid (go figure).

He took a look at my car and poured bottled water over the rear spoiler, and noted how the water slid off toward the back because it's tilted that way (downward). He told me it's not technically a "wing" at all, but a "spoiler" intended to create drag for the sake of directional stability, agreeing completely with my take on the 'feathers of an arrow' principle. He told me the 924/944 shape overall was an excellent compromise of aerodynamics to begin with and very influential to other manufacturers. The rear spoiler on a 968 captures a column of turbulent low pressure air flowing close to the surface of the rear hatch, and channels it straight backward, like the Ferrari F40.

Also, the parts catalog describes it as a "rear spoiler," 951.512.101.00 (03C if it's black rather than body color).

Don't mean to 'dis' you, Flash, but I'm going with the expert on this one.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[flash]

i think we are talking about semantics here - technically it is a wing because of its shape and surface contour - basic bernoulli principle here - go ahead and consult your expert on that one - its the installation that makes it non-functional for much down force - this makes any function it might serve one of a spoiler when in use

essentially they took a wing and tipped it - this is also why the turbo version is so in demand - it is at the correct angle

again though, i doubt the standard one has much function at speeds most people drive, which is why removal would not likely be an issue - it might even add drag, as many such things do

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.