[ds968]

http://www.wired.com/2015/05/nothing-bea...rappy-car/

I don't disagree with the author on this . And some day I may still get a Fiat 124 coupe ( same model I owned in the 70s and a car I still miss to this very day..)

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[Waylander]

I had a Fiat 130 super mirafiori back in the day the 2.0 twin cam, that was a dam fast car and such good fun, I have looked but can't find one that not rusted away completely

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[MCL968]

A lovely piece of literature, thanks for posting the link. I expect that you will find many on here who share the author's sentiments. While I appreciate my modern vehicles, nothing makes me feel connected to the road like an older car. You have to be engaged and attentive with an older car- it requires your attention; it is not optional.

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[flash]

you feel connected to the road with an older car like that, because you are frequently found sitting on it waiting for the tow truck

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[ds968]

Funny. Sadly true also. Still, I'd rather do that than drive ( nah, make that be driven ..because no one really drives new cars ) in the lap of luxury , over the top technology and serenity that comes along with almost all new vehicles.

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[flash]

i used to think like that too.  all i wanted was a spartan no frills car.  however, i have really come to appreciate things that come in these new cars, and would not buy one without them.  nav systems, heated and ventilated seats, heated steering wheels, rain sensing wipers, cameras, power everything, and the like, have really made driving a lot more enjoyable.  the days of taking a sports car out and thrashing it in a canyon are over for me.  i can't remember the last time i had a good time doing that.  for the last 7 or 8 years it has always meant dealing with traffic, which ruined the drive.  now, when i take a car out to play, i want to be comfortable.  even with the things i have done to the 968 to update it and make it more comfortable, it just doesn't measure up.  yes, for short blips of time i may get a rush out of it that i may not with a newer car, but those moments are few and far between for me, and far outweighed by the amount of time spent otherwise.  maybe if i lived somewhere else............

 

i have come to think in terms of the 85th percentile.  i have done that for a very long time, but i am really learning to apply that these days.  whatever i will do with something 85% of the time, dictates what i buy.

 

as much as i look back fondly on the mgb, remembering all the great times i had in it, the simplicity of design and upkeep, and even though it would run rings around even my blue 968 in any real measure of performance, i could not even consider driving one again.

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[ds968]

So are you saying that, in a fantasy parallel universe, given only a choice of two cars; the new Targa with all of its creature comforts and superlative driving capabilities and a Lamborghini Miura, and costs being equal ( hey I said it was a fantasy universe..) you would still observe that 85% rule and choose the Targa over the Miura ? I think not..in fact I'd bet on it, lol.

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[Inkedupfatboy]

For what it's worth...I hate the new cars.


I don't want a nav that's always on...I don't want touch screen menus...I don't want to get email in the car...I don't want bluetooth..

I don't care if my headlights have squirters and wipers...I don't need heated seats...I don't need a heated steering wheel or a crap ton of cup holders. I don't need 10 power outlets or 25 way adjustable seats. I don't want daytime running lights. I don't care that the car can compute my miles per gallon consumption....I just don't care. I don't want a hybrid, or an electric car. I drive my '66 beetle as much as my '07 Ridgeline.

 

All the extras that people have been conditioned to think they need are just expensive fodder for the repair center. It will all break because manufacturers can't make a product that lasts. I just spent over $80 for a Honda key, with a chip, that took them an hour and two dummy keys to get right, and the all metal 50 year old key for my beetle works just fine.

 

I can't find a new truck I like because the huge center consoles take up all the center room and merge into the dash making me claustrophobic..I don't need to store 5 cubic feet of crap between the front seats...Also there is just no room to sit and find a comfortable driving position (especially for a 15 hour drive)...I have more room in the 968 than any new pickup.

 

Almost all the new sedans and crossover suv's look the same - there is no distinctiveness any more - I can't tell a Honda from a Hyundai from a BMW or a Toyota Camry from a Hyundai Sonata They are all the same...ugly. If you took the badging off and asked random people what the car was, I bet most people would guess wrong. The new Lexus and Toyota grills look like the gaping maw of a whale shark..just nasty...try to clean bugs out of those things...nope.

 

I don't see the need for something that is new every year and barely any different from the last one you had..It's insane and unnecessary. Just the way I feel. I have been trying to buy a new truck for 4 years now, and just can't find anything that I like or that I feel I can trust to hold up and do what I need. You can have all that junk if you want...I will pass.

 

Rant over.

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[flash]

ds - you would lose that bet.  absolutely i would take the targa over the muira.  while i love the look of the muira, i don't like how it drives, and would never own one.  i am function over form.  always have been.  i'm not interested in owning something if it isn't truly useable.

 

most people who object to the new features and technology merely have not had the opportunity to live with them for a while.  it's that way with anything new.  that's exactly what happened to me.  as soon as i got used to some of it, i have found it to be essential to the superior driving experience, and would not consider driving a car without it.  it even bugs me that i don't have steering wheel control of my stereo in the 968.

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[ds968]

Amen to the "inked" post. Flash, if that's really true ( function over form ) then you and anyone else who opts for ultimate comfort and convenience have given up part of their driver's soul . May as well buy a snuggie and wear that while driving the Buick - I fear that's next, just as soon as the Targa is viewed as a car " the young kids " drive...

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[Chris Vais]

My uncle is 90 years old. Among other things he is retired Marine Corps Sargent Major. He is about to replace his current 290 year old caddy with a new one. Don't get me started about the merits of allowing a very hard of hearing 90 year old drive in the first place!!! 

 

So he wanted me to go with him to look at cars. The new Cadillacs have all the bells and whistles that you could possible imagine. In fact they are a rolling computer. I'm guessing you could probably call up you email on the nab screen. I have a hard time believing he'll ever figure all of the gadgetry out. It is unfortunate that an elderly person cannot buy a car in this country that doesn't have all of the computer controls, touch screens, nab systems and multiple function selection nobs. My Uncle is a smart man, but even he admits to being intimidated by all of this stuff you find in new cars these days.

 

DS, I had a 1971 Fiat 124 Sport Coupe that installed a European twin carb manifold on. Four wheel disk brakes, 5-speed transmission, a Lampredi  designed, twin cam 4 that would rev and rev, Cromadura alloy wheels. What wasn't to like. I've seen a couple turn up on Bringatrailer.com for about 3 or 4 time what they cost when new.

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[Inkedupfatboy]

When I sold cars, I had a customer who was an 80 something year old Catholic Priest. Very nice gentleman, but I knew he should not have been driving. His previous car was a 15 year old Buick with like 17 K on the clock.

 

I took him for a couple harrowing test drives. I don't spook easily, but this was really bad. I told my sales manager, and his comment was..."If you don't sell him a car, someone else will." I could see the lawyers of the deceased family he ran over, suing me for selling the car to him.

 

After buying the car, the gentleman came back three different times - to have me show him how everything worked...This was 15 years ago and the car was a Camry. I shudder to think what it would be like today.

 

I think for every option they cram into these things, there should be a delete option.

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[JTP]

I agree with flash, I had a 1974 Bronco for 18 years and undoubtedly was the coolest truck to drive around. Lots of praise and thumbs up when I drove it. But I couldn't drive it any longer, it was a 40 yr old truck and just going to the store wore me out. The noise, rough ride, exhaust smell, finally sold it. In many ways I wish I hadn't sold it but it was just occupying space.

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[ds968]

I drove about five minutes behind a brand new pick up truck - diesel ( or diesel hybrid if there is such a thing..) - and the exhaust smell was intoxicating ; it was as if I had a gasoline leak permeating throughout my own car's cabin. Horrible, I'm not sure if there was something wrong with that car, or if that's just how they are, but if the latter is the case, I can't imagine how anyone can drive something like that...maybe the exhaust smell issue is not necessarily exclusive to old cars.

 

Now, I was never talking about every piece of junk out there, for example I would never even drive my 70 'cuda nowadays, nor for that matter my Maserati Merak, but just getting back to the Fiat : if my commute was mostly city streets and less than half hour, I'd take that Fiat as a DD any day any time over a brand new car loaded with all those annoying gizmos and computers with the driving sensation of a luxury liner cruise ship.

That's why the 968 is as great as it is ; it still offers that "connection" I need in a car and it has just enough technology to make it a quasi-modern GT . Perfect ( for me anyway ). But yeah, sadly the hassles of a 22 year old car will eventually get to me also - NLA parts will be the death of it for sure , and I fear that's not too far in the distant future.  That said, I probably could not find any replacement parts for that Fiat either, LOL


Chris, I had the same features in my car that you listed for the one you had, except the twin-carb set up. Mine had the regular 2bbl webber . I think it was a 1600cc engine, pretty sure it wasn't the 1800cc, though I understand that was an option during the last two or three years run of the model .

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[lbpesq]

x

 

i used to think like that too.  all i wanted was a spartan no frills car.  however, i have really come to appreciate things that come in these new cars, and would not buy one without them.  nav systems, heated and ventilated seats, heated steering wheels, rain sensing wipers, cameras, power everything, and the like, have really made driving a lot more enjoyable.

Nav system?  I bought my first Garmin Nuvi GPS in 2006 for $800.  I bought my last two, same units, on eBay for around $24.  Don't need a new car for Nav.

 

Heated & Ventilated seat?  I can turn on the heat/air conditioning.  I can open a window, and I can move my ass around.  Don't need a new car for that.

 

Heated steering wheel?  Why?  It never gets that cold around here.  When I visit New York in the winter, I can put on gloves.  Don't need a new car for that.

 

Rain sensing wipers?  If you can't see that it's raining without electronic help, you shouldn't be driving.  Once I, as a human, sense that it's raining, I can turn the wipers on using my fingers.  Don't need a new car for that.  (And how lazy can one be?)

 

Cameras?  You mean for backing up, or taking selfies proving you have a new car?  If it's for backing up, I'll admit it is actually a useful feature, though I can still turn my head.  And if I want a backup camera that badly, they are available after-market.  Don't need a new car for that.

 

Power everything?  Power steering is nice, but certainly not necessary on a small car.  However, I believe just about every car I've owned had power steering with the exception of my '61 Bugeye and my current '58 TR3A (which has, instead, "Armstrong steering").  Same with power brakes.  Power windows are admittedly a significant improvement over crank windows, but when was the last time you had a car with crank windows?  Even the Triumph doesn't have crank windows (trick answer - the Triumph doesn't have any windows).   Don't need a new car for that.

 

What bugs me most about some of these new technology cars is the touchscreen readout.  I worry drivers spend too much time looking at the screen and not enough time looking at the road.  I once rented a Prius and found the cartoon of the energy systems extremely distracting.

 

And I also had a Fiat.  First car.  An 850 Coupe.  When I bought it, I was 18 and knew how to put gas in a car.  When I sold it 4.5 years later, I know how to rebuild an engine, service both drum and disc brakes, swap out a tranny, and numerous other jobs.  Fiat: FIx It Again Tony!

 

Bill

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[Rap]

Bunch of old farts bitchin and moaning! I just got a Q50s awd. The amount of computer technology is overwhelming. Not sure I will ever use most of it. So if I don't use it or want to I won't. Ever back up and almost hit a kid? Real hard to do in this car. Ever stray over lanes when you're preoccupied with something else. Now it lets you know. All the tech the p cars have for traction control and ride stability is available. Is it all necessary? I think that is a decision each has to make. If you don't want it buy a used car!

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[Inkedupfatboy]

I have never backed up and hit a kid, no. There should be a level of compromise as far as what someone wants and what they don't. If I want berries in my cereal, then I buy it, but there is another option without too.

 

When the EMP hits, I will be tooling around in my 50 year old beetle and your electronic cars will all be yard ornaments and spare rooms - lol....

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[Kim]

I have a Cayenne diesel. It has all of the stuff being noted as "unnecessary".  But I drive about 250 km every day and really like all that stuff.  E-mails that don't need me to look at my phone.  Tunes that I like from a variety of sources that will shut off if the phone rings.  Things that tell me if the car in the other lane is close.  And many other things. Rain sensing wipers that can come on in an instant when my wiper hand is holding a coffee and a truck goes by in the other lane and floods the front windshield. I just cant put a coffee down that fast. My only beef is that it will be expensive to fix if it breaks - maybe too expensive.  At 500,000 km in five years it will be worthless for resale because of that risk.  But I will have 5 years of enjoyable driving with a reasonable number of things to make it fun. 

 

I woke up one day and realised that there was more to driving - more than 85% as Flash says - than trying to be a hot dog. The Cayenne is great for about 98% of what I do.  I used to have 4 Porsches but now I only want one vehicle.

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[flash]

in the X5 we have HUD which has proven to be immensely helpful.  not only does the nav give its directions there, but without having to take your eye off the road, you can change radio stations, see your speed, see if a car is too close, and a whole bunch of other stuff.

 

the cameras are numerous and wonderful.  you can see all around the car when you are parking.  no getting too close to anything.

 

i also have a portable nav, and find it all but useless, especially in a convertible.  it's too small, does not connect to the stereo so all but inaudible, and much harder to program.  i use the nav, even around town, just to route my stops.  it saves me countless hours every month.

 

rain sensing wipers are GREAT!!!  no more having to flip them on and off, or change speeds.  i can focus on what's around me and my driving, and not having to monitor the wipers.

 

heated and ventilated seats - YES!!!  being a convertible driver, driver comfort is hard to achieve.  heated seats allow for winter top down driving.  ventilated seats really help cool down those hot socal afternoons.

 

the heated steering wheel is nice on really cold mornings.  if you have arthritis or hand damage, as i do, it really makes a difference.

 

i am quite sure that if anybody spent any real time with a car that had these things, they would quickly learn to love them.  i never thought i would, but sure enough, i now would not buy a car without them.  i am actually pretty bummed that the targa will only have a backup cam and no HUD.

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[Ryan]

I drive my beater Tundra and don't worry about fender benders or locking it or much of anything. It is a stripper long bed / reg cab version with a six in it. The only thing it doesn't have that I miss is cruse.

 

When I get in the 968 after driving the truck for a week, I feel I am in a super car.

 

My first car was a 66 VW bus. Talk about a beater. You had to think of your next move in that thing. I have many fond memories of it though.

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