[earossi]

Though I have a 968, I think that the issue I will describe is also common to the 944 engine.



I have a massive oil leak coming from the area of the front of the engine around the lower balance shaft housing. Problem is that I cannot pin point where the leak is coming from.



I have disturbed that area of the engine since I had to pull the balance shaft assembly down to replace the infamous rear cover O-ring seal. A tough job with the engine in the car and with the exhaust still hooked up!



Any of you who have done this know that getting the balance shaft housing to seal when putting the thing back together is not easy. You have to use Permatex or other gasket maker to coat the housing and its cover. Then there is the front housing assembly that has to be installed over the cover.......etc, etc. At any rate, I'm pretty certain that my leak has to be coming from that area, but short of pulling the entire housing and balance shaft out of the engine and starting over......I don't know what to do. I did pull the balance shaft front housing off the car to replace the balance shaft seal and to make certain I had not left the housing O-ring out (I had not). I also wanted to check to be certain that I had not left out the very thin plastic washer type seal that slips over the balance shaft (I had not). Nonetheless, I replaced all of these seals again just to be safe.



Buttoned her all up and she still leaks. But, the oil is everywhere. So, I am at a loss. I think I should pull the entire balance shaft housing off and start over from scratch; but, it is such a bitch to do that job that I am reluctant.



Any advice that anyone on the 944/968 board can provide would be greatly appreciated.



Is there a trick to putting the cover (which has the bearing saddles for the balance shaft) and the balance shaft into place on the engine? There is no way to secure the balance shaft to the engine to then put the cover in place.



Obviously I need help!

__________________

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[DaveN]

Sounds like my Toyota R22 engine. Never could see or find the leak but oil was thrown everywhere, big mess. I was just the crank seal, changed it and not a drop of oil since.

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[earossi]

Thanks Dave. Well, not the crank seal in my case. I have changed it out twice and the leak is still there. I now have the lower balance shaft assembly almost off the car and hope that doing a careful reseal job on that hardware will fix my problems.

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[Scott Collins]

Could be the oil filter housing, where it bolts up to the block. It's in the area that you are describing, and very hard to identify because it's hard to see.



It has a gasket, impregnated with a rubber seal. That thing leaks like no tomorrow....



It's shown on pg. 30 of the 968 PET, but I can't copy what I have, or cut and paste it. Anyone got that?

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[Lear35A]

Inside view of oil filter housing (really an oil/water heat exchanger). Note 3 black o-rings which are part of a gasket (shown in second picture) inside this thing which keeps the oil and water separate and either from leaking out.

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[Scott Collins]

Awesome pics Lear! Well done!

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[earossi]

I thought the same thing about the oil filter housing gasket. But, mine is dry in that area. Now that I have the thing just about torn down, I am beginning to believe that I must have disturbed the bead of sealant as I slid the balance shaft cover into place. As I mentioned, getting that cover in place is a bitch without removing the right side engine mount bracket. I may go through the extra steps this time to remove the bracket (which is also a bitch to do!!).

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[Cloud9...68]

earossi,



How many miles are on your engine? As I said in your other thread, as much as it pains me to say so, it seems to me that fixing all the possible leaks on this engine with the engine in the car is a very challenging task, and it's fraught with a lot of guess-work. But pulling the engine, which is a far more efficient way to identify and fix all the leaks, is a MASSIVE undertaking. It took me probably 20 hours of labor to get everything disconnected, although of course I could do it much faster if I had to do it again. And a good part of the job was done with the help of a very knowledgeable and experienced neighbor; doing it all by myself would probably have taken 50 hours! But once it's out, it's like the gates to Heaven have opened, and replacing every stinkin' o-ring and gasket on the engine is a very easy and satisfying job.



What I'm trying to say is, if there's ANY foreseeable reason you might have for pulling your engine (crankshaft work, or upgrading connecting rods, for example), AND you know somebody who's either done it before, or has done it on a similar car (like a 944), and you REALLY want to fix all your leaks, this might be the best way to go about it. Pretty painful either way, unfortunately...

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[earossi]

Cloud,



I understand exactly what you are saying. My other car (recently purchased) is a 993. The 968 is duck soup in comparison. The 993 engine bay is absolutely full and lots of sheet metal covers things. Other than oil changes (which take 2 to 3 hours to perform), I think pulling the engine is the option for almost anything else! And, apparently pulling an engine out of the 993 is almost as laborious as pulling the engine out of the 968.

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[williamoss]

Just had the exact thing happen to my 968 with 82,000 miles on it. It was the Crankshaft Seal, which was a lengthy job to get to. You have to remove the alternator belt and power steering belt, and the power steering unit. Then the starter, to keep the flywheel from moving, then there is a cover which inside is the timing belt and balance shaft belt. remove these and then the gears marking all the locations before hand. You finally can see the Crankshaft seal. Replace the lousy part which is about $20 and then put it all back together. This was beyond my capability's and I do not have a lift to get under the car. Only cost me $1,450 for the job. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/rolleyes.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[Cloud9...68]

"Only cost me $1,450 for the job. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/rolleyes.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />"





It's absolutely stunning how expensive it is to fix the leaks on this (and I suppose any) car. Not to get all depressing, but if you take a typical 968 with 100K miles on it, there's a good chance you have leaks in all or most of the following: oil pan gasket, rear main seal, crankshaft front seal, lower balance shaft seals, oil/water separator housing seal, power steering pump, power steering high pressure line, and possibly some of the seals in the transaxle. Plus maybe the steering rack. If you were to pay somebody to fix all these leaks, you'd be looking at probably $7000 - $10,000! All for a bunch of parts that probably total less than $200, if you include the steering rack seals. This is a major reason my engine is sitting on a stand in the garage...

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[rl968]

I had a leak at the oil cooler, resealed when timing belt was done and now its good.

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[Cloud9...68]

I knew there was at least one I'd forget - mine was leaking too, where the hoses connect to the engine. The figure keeps climbing...



I guess the best advice for those in the market continues to be to get a good PPI, with an emphasis on checking for all sources of leaks. Unfortunately, even a car with no leaks (unless they've previously been repaired) is bound to spring them eventually. At least it's unlikely that they'd all the vulnerable seals would start leaking at the same time, so the work/cost can be spread out over time.

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[willw]

First time I looked under my new car I saw it had about 10 oil pan bolts missing. The others were barely torqued down! I also had to replace the PS return line which sustained a friction cut from the heater valve. I think my balance shaft and cam seals are leaking also.

Small leaks are a pain, but the real problems happen when they get blown out from excessive crank case pressure; that's ugly.

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[Cloud9...68]

I think it's safe to say that most engine seals on these 16-to-19-year-old cars are probably leaking to some degree - it's just a question of how badly, and how long before they become intolerable.

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[Nenehubert]

Hi all,



I didn't want to start a new topic since my problems deals with the front seals. I ordered a crankshaft seal from pelican parts and they sent me a 38x52.2x7 and I know the seal is supposed to be a 52. Will this seal fit? I've tried beating it in with a 1 1/2 inch PVC coupler, and I'm getting nowhere. Does that .2mm really make that big of a difference? If it's right, I'll just attempt to get it in there, but I remember the seals fitting rather snugly and not providing that much resistance.



The only reason I'm asking is I just overnighted a new one from paragon since I'm in TX.



I understand that it's A/M, but why would pelican only stock the wrong seal if it is. Hmm



Thanks,

Rene

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[vliegwielolaf1234]

I have done about 6 engine rebuilts 944/968 , takes me about 3/4 hours to take the engine out , first time it took me a little longer .

Fixing the lower balance shaft in the car , with engine mount in place , very difficult , first everything needs to be spotles before you put it back together .

You need to clean all the old sealant from the mating surfaces , takes an effort with engine out of the car doing it in the car pffff , i would not do it/try it .

For sealing use loctite 574 .

then replace the sleaves wich go over the shaft and don't forget the thin plastic seal between balance shaft and sleave , otherwise it will leak a lot .

it wil leak in between shaft and sleeve .

so there are 4 seals including the 2 o-rings for each balance shaft . get PET and make sure you will get them all .



good luck

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[Nenehubert]

Thanks for the quick reply.



I've done two front seal replacements on 944/968, and I'm just curious if crankshaft seal is correct from pelican. I don't remember it being that much of a pain to seat properly. Should have ordered from sunset.

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[vliegwielolaf1234]

[quote name='Nenehubert' timestamp='1328745982' post='121580']

Thanks for the quick reply.



I've done two front seal replacements on 944/968, and I'm just curious if crankshaft seal is correct from pelican. I don't remember it being that much of a pain to seat properly. Should have ordered from sunset.

[/quote]

I use a piece of round pvc to tap it in with a plastic hammer , you should not have to hit it hard , but somtimes it is difficult to get them started .

If you really need force to put the seal in i don't think that is correct .

Originals have the porsche nbr's on them , i always go for that , hate oil leaks .

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[Cloud9...68]

[quote name='vliegwielolaf1234' timestamp='1328744893' post='121579']

I have done about 6 engine rebuilts 944/968 , takes me about 3/4 hours to take the engine out , first time it took me a little longer .

Fixing the lower balance shaft in the car , with engine mount in place , very difficult , first everything needs to be spotles before you put it back together .

You need to clean all the old sealant from the mating surfaces , takes an effort with engine out of the car doing it in the car pffff , i would not do it/try it .

For sealing use loctite 574 .

then replace the sleaves wich go over the shaft and don't forget the thin plastic seal between balance shaft and sleave , otherwise it will leak a lot .

it wil leak in between shaft and sleeve .

so there are 4 seals including the 2 o-rings for each balance shaft . get PET and make sure you will get them all .



good luck

[/quote]

I just put the balance shafts back on my engine, which is out of the car. I'm not sure what you mean by the "thin plastic seal between the balance shaft and sleeve." Could you tell me which part number this is in the PET? I'm also not sure what exactly you mean by the "balance shaft sleeve". Do you mean the assembly that bolts to the front of the engine that supports the shaft at the front? I think you're referring to the pieces that go behind the wiper seals at the front of the balance shafts, but I want to be absolutely sure I get everything right. I replaced the front wiper seals not too long ago, and they weren't leaking even before I replaced them (about the only seals on the entire car that weren't leaking!), so I'm going to leave these alone. Thanks.

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