[Mark]

[quote name='bob blackwell' date='Dec 21 2005, 08:20 PM']He is "Grumpy" Jenkins of the "Grumpy's Toy" fame in NHRA Circles.[/quote]



Very cool



[quote name='bob blackwell' date='Dec 21 2005, 08:20 PM']The Air force provided the Auto Hobby Shop where we worked on our cars.[/quote]



I always loved that and thought it was a great benefit for being in the AF. I doubt they would have some of the specialized Porsche tools. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[Greimann]

All this reminds me of some classic hot rod iconography

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[bob blackwell]

Mark, you are right, there were no Porsche special tools available at the Base Auto Hobby Shop. But I didn't have a Porsche then either so it didn't matter at all. Good luck, Bob Blackwell.

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[968LS1]

Hey Gene,



I mean "Grumpy" I have been a fan since I was a teenager and continue today. I use the car for Drivers Education @ PCA, BMWCCA, Viper Club and several other club events. I doubt any sanctioning body would let a hybrid run in their events. I am the Chief Driving Instructor for the Alabama PCA so I get a lot of opportunities for track time. I have run this car and my old on at many tracks including Road Atlanta, Barber Motorsports Park, Mid-Ohio, Carolina, Roebling Road, Watkins Glenn, and Lime Rock. Most people are intriged with the conversion and the performance tends to speak for itself. In fact 2 of the conversion I have done are for guys who had modified 944 Turbos and wanted the power and reliability of the V8. The 951 transaxle is not as strong as the 968 but they work just fine, I ran one for 3 years in my old car. They don't really offer more acceleration or top end with the gearing they have.



Flash had my wheels turning this morning when I drove to work and I noticed @ 75mph my RPM is 3000 with a 295/30/18. If I go to a 295/35/18 it would drop to approx 2650 RPM at 75mph. My 05 V8 Tundra turns 2400 rpm @ 75mph in overdrive so I don't feel that the 968 gearing is really an issue.



I have retained the heat, air and power steering, thought in the photos I have one of the air lines off to reconfigure it. The power steering is in place and I use the factory liquid to liquid cooler that comes on the 2001 and up F-bodies. In the pictures it is the polished tube in the upper radiator hose. I use the stock alternator with a reduction pulley on the crank and have no charging issues. The heat work just like it did with the original engine. I have not smog tested the car as it is not required where I live. I am sure it could be done. I know guys with a similar cam to mine that pass Georgia and Florida emission tests in their ZO6 Vettes.

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[flash]

out of curiosity, what are your 0-60 times?

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[968LS1]

Flash,



I have not officially checked my 0-60 but I would guess low 5 second. I know for a fact it is quicker than a 2004 ZO6 that had headers, small cam and ecm tuning.

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[flash]

it should be mid fours - a factory turbo is under 5, with a lot less torque off the line - i would love to see some 0-60 and 1/4 mile times, as well as some 50-100 - should be danged fun

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[968gene]

Tom,

I am in Birmingham from time to time. I too have traveled Roebling Road in my 914 V8 and in a go kart at 105 MPH, so maybe we need to share a beer or two when I'm in town. Have you considered the LS7 ?? The price is twice that of the LS1, but it looks like the ultimate conversion (even Flash might approve!).

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[968LS1]

Flash,



You are probably closer on the 0-60, I did not want to be too aggressive on my estimate not having actually tested the car. This spring I will have to make a trip to the drag strip and get some real #'s. The 50-100 is awesome for an engine that is so docile. Imaging one of the Vettes you have driven except faster!



Gene-Definitely call me if you are through B'ham, I look forward to having a couple of beers with a fellow gearhead and Hot Rod legend. The engine in my car was a take out from a totaled 2002 F-body so it was a LOT LESS that a new LS7 and the LS7 would have been cost prohibitive for me. I am currently converting my brothers 951 widebody track car to a drysump 383 LS1. The LS7 is bargin @ $13000.00 but unfortunately that was almost the total budget for his 951. I agree the LS7 would be an ultimate conversion and would love to do it oneday. I expect the 383 I am working will approach 475-500RWHP, but it will be a track only application.



Merry Christmas!!!

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[orphanowner]

I've been following this tread and can attest to how nice a driver a V8 944/968 can be. I have some seat time in a 1987 944T w/LS1 via a Renegade Hybrid conversion. The torque of the small block, as you would expect, came in at a lower RPM than a chipped 944T and pulled hard to around 6500 RPM, a lot like a chipped 944T. Lots of wheel spin in first and second. What I especially liked was the instant throttle response anytime you tipped into the throttle and the very strong top end pull in 5th gear, even stronger than my chipped 88 944T. The 944T gearbox has taller gearing than both the 944 NA and the 968 6 speed, and was good for upwards of 170 mph at 7grand. Ask me how I know…



The lack of power brakes was a drawback to me, but I understand there is a way around that too. The car did give me the feeling that the weight, if it was the same, was farther forward in the car. I never drove the car after the suspension was upgraded, but I don’t think the weight difference or placement was significant.



As I recall, the DMV portion of the conversion was pretty painless. The most important aspect being to make absolutely sure that all the original smog equipment from the donor engine was installed on the converted car. The referee had a list of all the OEM smog devices by year and was knowledgeable enough to verify that they were all in place. The tailpipe emissions were done at a test only smog check station and the car passed no problem.



I don’t remember exactly what this project cost my friend, but it wasn’t cheap and really not cost effective for simply getting a 944T with engine damage running again. When you consider the cost to upgrade a 944T to similar output, the cost of the V8 conversion becomes viable, but I’m not sure what the long term value of a converted car would be compared to a nice clean 944 turbo with the correct engine. As for the 968, the conversion may be an easier sell given the cost of fixing a blown or damaged 968 engine.



Tom’s conversion looks nicely done. I’d love to see more pictures. I think Tom should take a nice winter drive out to SoCal for some “southern” California hospitality (and so we can ride in his car!).

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[PcarFan]

If I shipped you my car would you do the conversion for me <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> haha probably not but hey i thought id ask! I am VERY interested in this conversion. If I considered this what kind of shop would I even contact to do something like this?? A chevy shop? a Porsche shop? a hot rod shop? I live in the Tampa Bay area and would seriously love to do this.

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[968gene]

How much do you all think I can get for my 28,000 mile motor?

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[968LS1]

Pcarfan-I am in the middle of a conversion right now that I should have finished in March-Check with me then. I don't know of any shops that have done any LS1/968 conversions, but a competent hot rod shop could do the conversion.



Gene-I got $3800 out of my engine (125K, new rollers, WP, belts etc..) I sold mine to a club racer who wanted a complete engine to build and wanted spares like the harness, DME, etc.... I did not start converting my car until after I sold the original engine. I got the LS1 prior to selling the 3.0 and did the head and cam package and had the motor and many of the necessary parts ready for the swap.

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[PcarFan]

I have another question. I see that a crate LS2 is pretty affordable, what do you think about using this motor? Also if I was going with this swap would it be better to buy the Renegade kit or do you think a shop could do all the work needed. Haha and last question im sorry... For a person paying for the conversion what would you expect the cost to be

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[flash]

labor alone, gotta be every bit of 5 grand - there's quite a bit involved



remember, the suspension mounts needed to be beefed up too - he did this right, and went with bearing mounts, and got rid of the rubber - that is a bit of a project itself - i just did it to mine



going the stock LS1 route, i'm guessing the project would be about 18k - start adding from there for performance stuff



seems like a kind of a coin toss really, no matter which way you go (turbo, supercharger, V8) - it really comes down to your preferences and desires and what you have in mind for the car



i'm still on the fence myself - looking forward to driving one first

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[bob blackwell]

Yeah, me too Flash. I have driven a 944 Turbo S with chip and did not like the hesitation/lag at all. Have not yet driven a supercharged 968 or 944 but think I would like the quicker response much better. From past experience driving a V8 powered, light weight car, I know I would like that a lot! Good luck, Bob Blackwell.

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[flash]

for me, whether i go this way or that, is dependent entirely on the curves (lol - hmmm - seems i use that philosophy in more places than one) - how wide the band is, how long it takes to go from the bottom to the top to shift again, what the spacing is, yada yada - that stuff is a lot more important to me than just grunt factor



a V8 in this car would be fun - no doubt about it - for the average driver, and in street car application, it's probably a much better solution too, and a lot more forgiving - gear choice and shifting technique likely become much lesser factors -



is it going to be faster on a road race course than a forced induction engine? these new engines are certainly better at it than they used to be............



i've just got to drive one - the decision for me is coming up fast

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[Anchorman]

Just think of all the risky things you get rid of if you do the LS1 instead of turbo- or super-charging. Variocam chain/pad failure; timing belt failure; oops, what else? If I ever have to do an engine replacement or a major rebuild, I have little doubt that it'll be V8 time.

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[flash]

lol - true enough



i haven't convinced myself yet though to toss the power plant, and along with it, any idea of anybody else ever working on the car - been there - done that - not sure i am ready to do it again - i don't have my shop anymore - day by day, as i modify more and more, i am getting closer to that point though

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[Anchorman]

I think it would be cool to call your local Chevy dealer and make an appointment for a tuneup on your Porsche 968.



I'd do in it a "Flash" - but, as I said, only when I'm otherwise faced with a major engine problem. Until then, I'm an NA 4-cylinder guy.

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