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LS1 968 - flash - 12-20-2005

here's a fun toy - tom in alabama sent me these shots of his project, and a little info:



The engine is a 2002 ls1 with ported heads and mild camshaft, 398 RWHP 379RWTQ. Suspension is MOTON Club Sport coilovers, MO30 swaybars, Racers Edge bushings, Charlie Arms and 993TT brakes.



i have already asked the following questions, in anticipation of those who have been contemplating the same thing:



"what did you do about the gearing problems? or are you just revving the crap out of the V8?"



"how about the rear suspension link limits? those rubber bushings are well known for not being up to the task"



"did you beef up the CV joints? you are right at their limits too"



"what did you do about engine mounts?"



"which clutch are you using? flywheel?"



sounds like a hoot - this should get some people thinking for sure



   

   

   

   

   

   

LS1 968 - 968LS1 - 12-20-2005

Flash,



Thanks for postig the photos for me. I can put a V8 in a 968, but can't seem to post photos myself. Her are the answers to your questions:



The 968 and 944T gearing is actually very good when combined with the LS1, the engine will safely turn 7000RPM. I have had the same 968 6speed behind a V8 Pcar for the last 8 years with no issues. The gearbox has a GT torque Bias diff and the all gears, ring and pinion have been cryo-treated. Rear suspension is all Racer Edge spherical bearing and Delrin on the spring plate.



The CV Joints are high quality stock replacement units ( I have yet to have one fail). The engine mounts are 3 peices-1 is a plate that relocated a early chevy mount forward on the engine, 2- early chevy mount (the actual motor mount I use is eurathane and is made by Energy Ssuspension). 3- is a fabricated stand that goes between the 968 X-member and the motor mount.



The clutch and flywheel are C5 corvette items. I use SPEC clutches here in Alabama, David the owner is a good friend and neighbor. I run a lightweight clutch and flywheel with Kevlar disc it weighs 24lbs less than the stock C5 unit.

Thanks again Flash!!!!

Tom <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

LS1 968 - chris - 12-20-2005

Well.....you'll either love it or hate it... <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/biggrin.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

LS1 968 - GuardsRedCoupe - 12-20-2005

WOW. Did you work with Renegade Hybrids on this, or was this something you did on your own? Perhaps I'm way off, but that is the only place I've seen information on putting an LS1 in a front engine Porsche.



I love your interior! Is that white/grey combination stock? Great looking seats.



I gotta disagree with Chris, though. I wouldn't say I love it or hate it. I don't think I'd do a conversion unless I had a good reason, but if my engine blew up tomorrow, I'd think long and hard about putting a chevy engine in it.

LS1 968 - raymunsch - 12-20-2005

[quote name='GuardsRedCoupe' date='Dec 20 2005, 11:58 AM']WOW.  Did you work with Renegade Hybrids on this, or was this something you did on your own?  Perhaps I'm way off, but that is the only place I've seen information on putting an LS1 in a front engine Porsche.



I love your interior!  Is that white/grey combination stock?  Great looking seats.



I gotta disagree with Chris, though.  I wouldn't say I love it or hate it.  I don't think I'd do a conversion unless I had a good reason, but if my engine blew up tomorrow, I'd think long and hard about putting a chevy engine in it.

[right][post="13551"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]





I'm new to the forum...Go for it man! I've done a few 928's with Chevy engines (as well as numerous other marques like Jag's, etc.) and it's a great way to keep an otherwise very expensive engine replacement, reasonable. Now I would not convert a car that was rare (like a Club Sport) no matter how much money the customer has, but if the alternative is to part out or scrap the car - do the conversion and damn the purists! My personal 79 928 with a GM LT4 makes over 400 reliable HP and will run side-by-side with a 930 Turbo from 0 to over 100 mph. Then it will sit there with the a/c on and idle almost as nicely as a stock 928. I don't baby this 928, either, (I have two totally stock 928's for that). As long as your driveline is in good condition and you don't side step the clutch, you should end up with a great car that will spank any Mustang and most Corvettes, not to mention, most other Porsches! Ray

LS1 968 - Anchorman - 12-20-2005

Personally, I LOVE it. If I had a major engine problem, I have little doubt that this is the way I'd go - although not quite so far, as I'd still want the temperament and ride of a daily driver. I wonder about those wheels - I have 18" and those look MUCH bigger - are they 20s or are the photos deceiving?

LS1 968 - 968LS1 - 12-20-2005

I did the R&D for Renegade on the LT1 and LS1 conversions. Scott and Mike have made some changes/improvements over the last year and have a complete kit now available. They have not done a 968 in house and I can tell you that the hood clearance is close. I made 3 sets of engine stands before I got it to clear the hood without spacing the x-member down and compromising the suspension geometry.



My car was a 135K 2 owner that needed A LOT of mechanical work, but had a great body and interior. I paid 10K for my car and sold the original engine for $3800, wheels for $1000 and brakes for $650.00 so my cost for a good body was low.



The interior is original with the exception of the seats, which are Cobra Misano. They are stupid expensive but the color match on the leather was perfect and they olny weigh 24lbs ea.



I would have to say I love the conversion, it smooth, fast, RELIABLE and simple to work on, and the cost for me was much less that a turbo conversion.



I am currently converting my brothers 951TS widebody track car with a stroked dry sump LS1, it should be a 2500# rocket on the track .

LS1 968 - bob blackwell - 12-20-2005

Tom, I love it! Brings back memories of installing a small block chevy V8 into my MG TD back in the late fifties. If I ever need major engine work this is way I will go. good luck and good Job, Bob Blackwell.

LS1 968 - Eric_K - 12-20-2005

Looks like a very clean install. Are you running the brakes without the booster? How do they feel?



Eric

LS1 968 - 968LS1 - 12-20-2005

Eric,



I do run manual brakes and they feel great. I changed the pedal ratio from stock 4:1 to 6.5:1 and on the track I use PFC pads.



Some one asked about the wheels they are Kinesis 18"x 11" and 9.5"

LS1 968 - Mark - 12-20-2005

Looks great and sounds like you've done it right.

LS1 968 - flash - 12-20-2005

i'm all good with everything but the gearing - i've done a few V8 conversions, and it's always a problem - fun if you don't expect to take it on long road trips though



at 80mph, 3400 is just too darned high for that V8, regardless of its ability to hit 7k - those engines weren't designed to run that high for sustained periods - the noise and vibration must be brutal, let alone the heat generated - they finally got it right with the new vette



the upside is where you are in the torque band at that point - woohoo - a squish of the pedal and ZOOM! - no shifting required

LS1 968 - wjk_glynn - 12-20-2005

I gotta ask...



* Can you ball park the total cost?



* What do you think is the net gain in weight?



Karl.

LS1 968 - bob blackwell - 12-20-2005

Flash, do not underestimate the Chevy V8 and it's ability to turn serious RPM for extended periods. Just look at the record for Le Mans, Sebring and Daytona. 'nuff said. Bob Blackwell.

LS1 968 - 968LS1 - 12-20-2005

Bob,



I am not really with you on the gearing. I have driven this car as well as my old 944T V8 on several trips to the beach, thousands of street miles and have not experienced excessive vibration or heat issues that you mention, especially with the LS1. That s not to say that having a taller final drive would not be nice and lowering the cruising RPM would increase mileage, but it just has not been a problem for me. I choose a cylinder head and cam (221/221 @ .050 114CL)combination that would provide smooth power without cam lope or surging @ low rpm, the car idles smooth @ 800rpm. Whats working harder- a 3.0 liter 4cyl at 3400 rpm or a 5.7 V8 @ 3400 rpm? The LS1 is an incredibly powerful, lightweight and efficient V8. At highway speeds it is smooth, quiet and gets 25 mpg at 75mph in the 968. GM put tall overdrives in Vettes and Camaros because the V8 had the torque to pull along at highway speeds and meet EPA mileage requirements. The LS1 weighs 380lbs without the headers, about the same as a 968 3.0, so the weight balance has not changed. I would love for you to ride in the car and I think you would be suprized as I was how good the combination really is.i That s not to say that having a taller final drive would not be nice and lowering the cruising RPM would increase mileage, but it just has not been a problem for me. This is not my daily driver but I drive it a lot as well a use it for DE events and it is been a pleasure.



Tom

LS1 968 - flash - 12-20-2005

hmmm - i've driven a couple of the newer vettes, and letting it sit over 3k drove me nuts - it was tons of fun to stomp on it, but not fun to cruise down the highway



the heat would be the single biggest issue i would worry about in the 968 - that has got to be one huge radiator



no question about the fun factor though

LS1 968 - 968gene - 12-20-2005

Tom, Wow. I put a Buick 215 (aluminum block and heads) in a 914 and I loved it. The tall gears in the 914 scares me off the 968 V8 conversion, but your comments seem very convincing. If your offering rides, where does the line begin? Thanks for sharing your conversion wisdom.

LS1 968 - bob blackwell - 12-20-2005

Yeah Tom, I will be right behind Gene for a chance to drive your 968 V8, good luck, Bob Blackwell.

LS1 968 - 968LS1 - 12-21-2005

The radiator is big (24x18 2 rows of 1" tubes), mainly to keep it cool on track days. When I first built the car I ran it on a stock radiator and it was fine on the street, but could not handle hard track use without getting to the 230-240 range. Now 205 is the max I see @ the track. I have seen several 944T and 968 Turbo track cars that require larger radiators to manage the heat generated during track use. A higher 6th gearset is a nice thought but I am sure custom gears would be pricey. You are correct flash, no downshifting required to make a brisk pass on the highway and it will spank a ZO6 for a lot less $$.

LS1 968 - 968LS1 - 12-21-2005

It would be my pleasure to give you guys a ride, but I have to warn you the power is addictive. If you are ever in B'ham Alabama give me a shout and its on!



Regarding cost for the engine conversion I have $6500 in mine, plus another $2700 for the heads, cam, custom road race oil pan, oil cooler and big radiator. I have several parts that are strictly for track use that add cost that would not be necessary for a street car.