[flash]

i really don't want to sound negative about the idea, and i certainly don't want to discourage anybody from trying this - i'd love to see it really worked out



what i am afraid of is the perpetuation of "used motors crammed into beat up stock rubber bushed cars" and the expectations of it being civilized, and the ultimate disappointment of the owner



this can work, i'm sure - it's going to cost a good deal of time and money to get it right though - my guess is a good conversion would be $20k-$25k all in - it could easily go higher though, depending on gearbox choices and such



i'm getting too old and lazy for projects like that anymore, but as long as somebody is prepared for that, great - go for it - we'd all love to see it

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[sker66]

    attachmentid=5110]Actually SB Wrenches car has the feel of an OEM car.Great in Traffic as his clutch setup has a light feel.He is a pro builder and he likes to create cars like this so for him and others like us we enjoy creating this way. I do agree that the most practical solution for most is to buy factory cars and do your tinkering in subtle changes.It does take a lot of effort to do custom oneoff projects and very rarly do you get your money back.It does depend what your after as Flash stated.I drive a 968 coupe with Tiptronic and its a great daily driver but does lack the power i have been accustomed to . Tony has modded his car more than when i drove it a couple of years ago on the streets and highways of so cal. When i drove it it felt great with no buzzing,rattling,weird noises,etc., but he has pushed the car more as a track day car than a street car.



All cars are just great and have there place. Have fun with your cars all.



Hers one of my other modded cars you may like more than the v8 conversion!!.....cheers

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[SILVY968]

[quote name='sker66' post='46359' date='Jan 26 2008, 08:02 AM']attachmentid=5110]Actually SB Wrenches car has the feel of an OEM car.Great in Traffic as his clutch setup has a light feel.He is a pro builder and he likes to create cars like this so for him and others like us we enjoy creating this way. I do agree that the most practical solution for most is to buy factory cars and do your tinkering in subtle changes.It does take a lot of effort to do custom oneoff projects and very rarly do you get your money back.It does depend what your after as Flash stated.I drive a 968 coupe with Tiptronic and its a great daily driver but does lack the power i have been accustomed to . Tony has modded his car more than when i drove it a couple of years ago on the streets and highways of so cal. When i drove it it felt great with no buzzing,rattling,weird noises,etc., but he has pushed the car more as a track day car than a street car.



All cars are just great and have there place. Have fun with your cars all.



Hers one of my other modded cars you may like more than the v8 conversion!!.....cheers[/quote]



She is BEAUTIFUL!

Brian

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[sker66]

[quote name='SILVY968' post='46366' date='Jan 26 2008, 11:40 AM']She is BEAUTIFUL!

Brian[/quote]



Brian..........Nice Cab!



Turbo Twists look great on her!

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[SILVY968]

[quote name='sker66' post='46369' date='Jan 26 2008, 11:19 AM']Brian..........Nice Cab!



Turbo Twists look great on her![/quote]



Thanks. I like the wheels as well, but as a DD I have the stock, but chromed 16" wheels on her for the winter. The turbo twists are 18" that I run in the spring/summer and the ride is a bit butt tough. I painted them out in polar silver body color. This paint everything in body color seems to work for my sense of a cleaner looking body and lends itself in a silver car.

Brian

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[andre968]

Did you consider using the final drive gears from a tiptronic car? I read that they are quite a bit better ratio. I don't have numbers in front of me, but the final drive ratio was something like 3.89 for 6 speed, and 3.34 for tiptronic. Those numbers are not exact, but close. That would solve high revving problem, improve mileage, etc.



If for some reason this can't be done, please let us know, because I would like to do this conversion but I won't do it unless I can get the engine down to 1500 cruising speed. That is what it was designed for.



Thanks for so much info. I read the whole thread last week.

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[sker66]

Tip Trans cannot be used for this application.



Most guys will use the LSD 5 speed tranaaxle with a 5th gearset from a 944N/A installed to address this issue.



Best Forum for this conversion is here http://www.porschehybrids.com

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[andre968]

[quote name='sker66' post='46707' date='Feb 1 2008, 07:08 AM']Tip Trans cannot be used for this application.



Most guys will use the LSD 5 speed tranaaxle with a 5th gearset from a 944N/A installed to address this issue.



Best Forum for this conversion is here http://www.porschehybrids.com[/quote]





I didn't mean to use the tiptronic transmission. Just the gears inside the final drive casing. I assume it has hypoid bevel gears? I have not taken apart one of these, so I don't know how it differs from a car with the trans in the front. I mean, I know the trans is in the rear, and I assume it is bolted up to the final drive casing. I figured perhaps you could use the final drive casing from a tiptronic car, or maybe just the hypoid bevel gears from the final drive casing of the tiptronic car, with the 6 speed trans bolted up to it. I wonder if this would work, and if so, I wonder if it could be incorporated with the LSD parts from the final drive of the 6 speed. (I believe LSD was not available with tiptronic, but I could be wrong here too.



This might be of interest to people wishing to have better fuel economy, even if they have not swapped motors.

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[333pg333]

I've also seen Tony's car on all the videos and it seems like a fun car. There is also a guy on Rennlist who has a really neat V8 conversion that goes by the name of DVC on there. He's also just put in the KW suspension and loves it. It sounds like a good car in all aspects from descriptions.

What size is your motor and what Garrett are you running?

I think something that falls inbetween these 2 motors is a larger 951/968 turbo motor. You do get the benefits of the extra tq and have the turbo up top, plus it's largely a factory fit as Flash describes. When you drive a good 3.0L turbo you do notice the tq immediately and won't want to go back to smaller displacement. However once you start getting over 400whp you will have to do some driveline mods, so no matter what you do really, you have to pay for the pleasure.





[quote name='sker66' post='46341' date='Jan 25 2008, 06:36 PM']Flash

..some of what you say is true if the car was done by a non pro without knowledge and proper funding. But i have to disagree with your statement as its to generalised and doesn't apply in every case.

I personally own a moderately modded 951 with Garret BB Turbo, Tial wastegate,electronic boost controller,custom chipped,suspension,etc. Car put down 341HP @ the wheels @ 1.4bar boost. This equates to about 400HP @ the crank. This becomes a totally different car requireing suspension and brake mods.

This was the race fuel setting and i also had a .9 bar for 91 octane for daily driving. This car is a blast to drive but low end torque does suffer with the larger turbo i am running at this time.

On the other hand i have driven two professionally prepared v8 conversions and they are both very....very nice!



You may know one of the guys..............Tony G http://www.tonygarcia.org/944V8/



I have driven Tony's car and all i can say is that its... Bad to Da Bone!



Great conversion and sooo much fun i can't describe.



Then there is SB Wrench on the Hybrids forum who did a real nice LT1 conversion with power brakes,450HP LT1 with Trick Flow Heads and well sorted. When you drive this car you get the inpression that its a production based car. Very well done by a professional Gear Head!



I will take Tony G's car any day to my modded turbo.......any day!



Then i bought someone elses unfinished LT1 project that was done poorly with inseficient funds and that matches your desciption. I Yanked the conversion and engine and have currently rebuilt the engine to 383 stroker status with TC heads,Comp Cam,etc. Should be running by summer.



You can compare the car i purchased to and old , poorly maintained 951, 968. They feel like cr** compared to a nice sorted car in well maintained condition.



Really depends on build quality and content in every case.



Of coarse its not for everybody. Most people are better suited to buy an existing engineered factory car or a pro build car if they have the coin to do so![/quote]

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[sker66]

333

Your car's build specs are very impressive. I was planning a 3.2 Litre build using the Darton Sleeves and 89 2.7 head. My 944t is a 2.5 with Garrett/Turbonetics #8 Hotside and 60-1 HiFi Compessor. I think the #8 hotside is to big for the street with the 2.5 as turbo lag down low is very noticeable with low torque.

When i drove Tony's car and Al's LT1 based car it felt more fun overall on the street as the torque is anywhere you want. On the track i really like the turbo characteristics.

Now with my 996TT which was pro modded by S-Car-Go Racing has no lag whatsoever. But down low still is no comparison to the modded v8 car. I think there all fun.Everyone should have at least one of each <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/cool.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />



I think a LS2 based twin Turbo set up around 800HP with smaller more responsive Garretts would be the ultimate build. I've gathered the parts to do it but it would be a very involved costly prodject to address driveline,traction,etc. Thats the nice thing about the 996tt with all wheel drive and engine over the rear wheels traction is contained pretty well. Some of my club members are in the 850 to 1,000HP range. I'm the newbi guy at 700. For now i'll just do the LT1 383 stroker and live with that for a while. It will just be a street and sometime track day car. Nothing to exotic.

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[333pg333]

Well I can tell you a bit about Darton sleeves as I've had some experience with them over the last year. As you know there are the dry sleeves and the MID's. Both my mechanic and I opted for the MID's at the beginning of last year. After umpteen failures he has gone back to stock 2.5L (he went out to 2.7L with Vitesse S3 kit, I went to 3.0L with S5 kit) and I've stuck with 3.0L but gone for a dry sleeved block. I posted a couple of pics on another thread, but here goes anyway as they are too nice to keep all to myself. Check out the exquisite deckplate work. This is also line bored, girdle pegged, larger 9/16th headstuds, MLS etc. This should be good for upto 500hp with the right tuning. We are just about to do a full LINK G3+ with knockblock and bits. This will have a GT35r 3.5" d/pipe into 4", out with 5" system plus full custom headers/c-over/upipe. Highflow 8v racehead, big cam, lite fly, knife crank, S2 cw&p, 80% Motorsport LSD, modified stock inlet, bigger t-body, 2.75 i/c pipes w big front mount. Blahdy blah blah. lol

Sorry once I get on a roll it's hard to stop.

Funniest thing will be when I tell my mechanic that this all has to come out next year when the Monster Motor arrives!!! This will be quite a bit bigger than 3.2L with a whole bunch of crazyassed stuff going into it. 16v of course. I think this will provide just a smidge of hp/tq to give your tt a bit of a scare. It is being designed and built now.

So I guess the moral to this whole story is for whoever is going to do a modified car. Read and research. Then be prepared to wait ages for it to be ready and for you to be a s***load lighter in the backpocket. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/blink.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/biggrin.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

Interestingly, for those that say the 951 box is stronger than the 968, the largest LSD in the picture is for a 968 and has 6 plates. Not cheap just quietly.

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[sker66]

[quote name='333pg333' post='46803' date='Feb 2 2008, 09:23 PM']Well I can tell you a bit about Darton sleeves as I've had some experience with them over the last year. As you know there are the dry sleeves and the MID's. Both my mechanic and I opted for the MID's at the beginning of last year. After umpteen failures he has gone back to stock 2.5L (he went out to 2.7L with Vitesse S3 kit, I went to 3.0L with S5 kit) and I've stuck with 3.0L but gone for a dry sleeved block. I posted a couple of pics on another thread, but here goes anyway as they are too nice to keep all to myself. Check out the exquisite deckplate work. This is also line bored, girdle pegged, larger 9/16th headstuds, MLS etc. This should be good for upto 500hp with the right tuning. We are just about to do a full LINK G3+ with knockblock and bits. This will have a GT35r 3.5" d/pipe into 4", out with 5" system plus full custom headers/c-over/upipe. Highflow 8v racehead, big cam, lite fly, knife crank, S2 cw&p, 80% Motorsport LSD, modified stock inlet, bigger t-body, 2.75 i/c pipes w big front mount. Blahdy blah blah. lol

Sorry once I get on a roll it's hard to stop.

Funniest thing will be when I tell my mechanic that this all has to come out next year when the Monster Motor arrives!!! This will be quite a bit bigger than 3.2L with a whole bunch of crazyassed stuff going into it. 16v of course. I think this will provide just a smidge of hp/tq to give your tt a bit of a scare. It is being designed and built now.

So I guess the moral to this whole story is for whoever is going to do a modified car. Read and research. Then be prepared to wait ages for it to be ready and for you to be a s***load lighter in the backpocket. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/blink.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/biggrin.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

Interestingly, for those that say the 951 box is stronger than the 968, the largest LSD in the picture is for a 968 and has 6 plates. Not cheap just quietly.[/quote]



Very, Very Cool. Who welded in the deckplate and installed the sleeve's? Sorry to hear about the Mid's failing. Can you tell me how they failed? Did you use the machine shop that Darton Recomends that has done many of these? Love to see your car. Are you in So. Cal. ?

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[333pg333]

Haha, nowhere near SoCal unless you travel the Galaxy and therefore Sydney, Australia is close, although the block/deckplate has been done by a company in Costa Mesa SoCal so I'd suggest if you or any of you guys are doing some serious rebuilds that you talk to these guys. The deckplate was designed by Dave McGrath but I don't want to tread on anyone's toes so I won't advertise here on their behalf. If anyone wants to know more they can PM me or email me.

No we didn't use the Darton machine shop and that could be one of the reasons we had our problems. Having said that, I don't know of anyone who has successfully been running a MID motor in a turbo car for any duration...and let me tell you, I've searched. So if you know of anyone let me know as I'd love to find out what was the cause of so much pain, frustration, time and money wasting!!

Wish I'd done what I'm doing now over a year ago. I can actually say that my life would be different for it. erg!

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[Big Dave]

Just resurecting this thread.
Any idea how many 968,s have been fitted with a LS - V8 engine..???
Now that some of you have had these in for a while , could anybody comment on there findings. IE breakages reliability etc etc ...
Im VERY interested to know more.

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[rhudeboye]

<!--quoteo(post=78471:date=Aug 23 2009, 03:59 AM:name=Big Dave)-->QUOTE (Big Dave @ Aug 23 2009, 03:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->could anybody comment on there findings. IE breakages reliability etc etc ...
Im VERY interested to know more.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I'm still waiting to hear the basics. 0-60 Max HP, 1/4 mile, top speed. Perhaps I missed it.

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[Big Dave]

<!--quoteo(post=78473:date=Aug 23 2009, 12:08 PM:name=rhudeboye)-->QUOTE (rhudeboye @ Aug 23 2009, 12:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I'm still waiting to hear the basics. 0-60 Max HP, 1/4 mile, top speed. Perhaps I missed it.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I suspect there would be a significant increase in all the above...
Although im not bothered about the 0-60 OR the 1/4 mile times...Or top speed to be honest, as most are just "pub talk". Its all to do with the extra overtaking power + power out of the corners...

Im actually more interested to hear how the transmision,s are holding up, especially on a track biased car...If they have chewed through numerous sets of driveshafts / CV joints etc.??

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[968gene]

<!--quoteo(post=78476:date=Aug 23 2009, 10:39 AM:name=Big Dave)-->QUOTE (Big Dave @ Aug 23 2009, 10:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I suspect there would be a significant increase in all the above...
Although im not bothered about the 0-60 OR the 1/4 mile times...Or top speed to be honest, as most are just "pub talk". Its all to do with the extra overtaking power + power out of the corners...

Im actually more interested to hear how the transmision,s are holding up, especially on a track biased car...If they have chewed through numerous sets of driveshafts / CV joints etc.??<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


You might also call Black Forest Racing in NC and speak to john Forbes. He has several race cars and street car conversions. One is a 951 track conversion that has run with NASA SE and hasn't broken in 2-3 seasons In fact, they have had little maintenance to perform on the car during the previous two seasons.

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[PorscheDude]

Over the last few years, I've seen 6 968's with a V8.

The car in the original post, IMHO, is by far the best of them.

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[Big Dave]

The more i look into this, the better it seems to be..

I think one of the main challenges im going to come across is that my car is a RHD car, NOT LHD...

but im sure this can be overcome, he hopes....

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[968gene]

<!--quoteo(post=78508:date=Aug 23 2009, 06:03 PM:name=Big Dave)-->QUOTE (Big Dave @ Aug 23 2009, 06:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->The more i look into this, the better it seems to be..

I think one of the main challenges im going to come across is that my car is a RHD car, NOT LHD...

but im sure this can be overcome, he hopes....<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


RHD might be easier to accomplish (fitting headers etc.)

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