[carlos1963]

Iam looking to buy my first porsche and I am llking at 944s2's and now 968's. Any feedback is greatly appreciated.



1. 944s2 VS 968 ?



2. Pros and Cons?



3. First time owner, which wouldbe a better buy?



Thanks!

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[flash]

that's really way too broad a question - things like your budget, intended use, resale intention, etc, would be serious factors there

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[carlos1963]

[quote name='flash' date='Jun 4 2006, 11:21 PM']

that's really way too broad a question - things like your budget, intended use, resale intention, etc, would be serious factors there

[right][post="22321"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right]

[/quote



Thanks for the reply Flash.



My budget is 20K, but would be looking to spend around 12-15K, so that I can have some money left over for maintenance expenses. This would not be my daily driver. I am not really concerned about the resale intention, as much as a car that I can enjoy driving, and not really end up having it bein the shop most of the time. I am however more concerned about the cost of maintaining the car. From what I've been reading, owning a Porsche, can be expensive.



Again thanks for your help.

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[wjk_glynn]

The 968 was an evolution of the 944S2. It was originally going to be called the 944S3, but Porsche's marketing folks decided to assign the model number 968 quite late in the development program.



The big differences between the 968 and 944S2 are:



* Lot of external sheet metal changes, considered by most to be better looking than the 944S2



* 968 added variable valve timing which adds roughly 30 hp (+15%) over the 944S2



* The transaxle is a completley different design and IMO a significant improvement over the 944S2. The 968 unit is a 6-speed G50 based design. One of the nicest shifting transmissions out there...



* The 968 clutch is a lot easier (and thus cheaper) to service than the 944S2.



* 968s were built at the Porsche plant in Stuttgart. Most 944s, including the 944S2, were built at the Audi plant in Neckarsulm.



* The interior of the 968 is very similar to the 944, but in general the quality of the materials on some surfaces was superior (e.g. door panels)



* With each successive model, the 944 series got more refined. The 968 was the ultimate expression of that refinement and was definitely the best of that breed.



* Compared to the rest of the 944 models, a 968 is rare. But 944S2s are also rare. Its just that a 944S2 looks a lot more like the more numerious earlier models (including the turbos).



Where the cars are very similar are:



* Frame

* Brakes

* Suspension (rear on 968 was a bit stiffer to accomodate the heavier 968 transaxle)

* Maintenance and reliability



Now... in the US, a 968 will command roughly $5-7K more than a 944S2 in similar condition.



Are the improvements listed above worth the extra $$$? Only you can be the judge of that... For me, its a 50:50 thing.



Karl.

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[sasilverbullet]

to me the bottom line is how it looks - you either like the 944's front end, or the 968's...

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[RPM]

Having owned both I think it is simple: Unless you are in love with the styling of the S2 - or price keeps you from considering a 968 - you should buy a 968. All of the attributes of the S2 - with more modern design, better performance, and a 3-7 year younger car. This is a relatively easy question.

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[flash]

while i prefer the 968 by far, since the question was "which was a better buy?", i am still stuck a bit



a 944S2 will cost you half what a 968 will to buy



944s have more aftermarket stuff available to them



944s are easier to find mechanics for



944s have more oem parts readily available



most individual 944 repairs are less expensive than those for the 968



if you are looking to keep the car stock, then the 968 will give you more performance, exclusivity, and what most feel is a better look



the 968 will hold its value better



the 968 is more refined, making the 944 look and feel primitive by comparison



all that being said, i wouldn't swap my 968 for any 944



if you were looking at a turbo, i might feel slightly differently on "better buy", but the lines are what did it for me, so that part of the equation went out the window

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[DCTepper]

[quote name='sasilverbullet' date='Jun 5 2006, 08:27 AM']to me the bottom line is how it looks - you either like the 944's front end, or the 968's...

[right][post="22333"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]



The tailend design is what made my decsion. I feel the 944s tail dates it since it hasn't changed much besides the addition of a spoiler or occasional splitter (S2/951) since the 924.



I do find the front end of the 944S2 and Turbos aggresive and attractive, but I feel the 968 has the "total package."

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[flash]

but the 968 rear clip can be put on a 944 - i saw a white one - looked great

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[RPM]

Other than initial purchase cost this question is a no-brainer. Don't forget, in some ways the S2's cam chain tensioner setup is far more prone to breakage than the Variocam system - even though they share similarities. The cost to maintain an S2 is no less than a 968.



Having said that, the S2 is a great car. I only passed mine on when the mileage got over 130k and the car's oil 'consumption' reached epic proportions. I chose not to rebuild the engine, work that would have equaled 30-50% of the car's value.

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[Glau]

While I would lean towards purchasing a 968 for all the reasons mentioned, personally I would let the market decide for me. And by this I mean that people usually have to wait many months to find the right 968 for them. If during my search a car came up that fit everything I wanted but was a S2 it would be very hard to pass up. Recently there has been a very clean low-milage S2 Cab for sale here in St. Louis that I have been watching for no other reason than I like its color and we may never see a 968 Cab for sale in this color combo and condition.



Disclaimer: I am not interested in buying this car I just like to follow the markets for the cars I love.



Good Luck,



Glau

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[mike]

I currently own a '91 944S2 Coupe and '95 968 Coupe. I really don't think that you could go wrong with either choice. Like others have said, it just depends on what your intended use is going to be. Actually, my intended plans were for the 944S2 to be my track car and the 968 to be my street car and daily driver. But I now use the 944S2 for the dd and track the 968. One of the differences that I first noticed when I got my 968 was the flat spot in the accelleration due to the vario cam. My 944S2 actually felt quicker by the seat of the pants due to the steady pull throughout the rpm range. According to all the road tests, the 236 hp of the 968 to the ~210 of the 944S2 made the 968 a tad quicker from 0-60 and I'm sure it was probably true. I just hated that flat spot. That was easily remedied with the airbox mod, K&N air filter and a performance chip. It now pulls much nicer thoughout the rpm range. The 968 clutch and 6-speed tranny do feel smoother than the 944 but my 944 has served me well with over 150K miles on the odometer. For an example of a nice 944S2 go to Tom Pulz's website at http://www.944s2.com. My first choice would be a nice well maintained 968. But if my budget only allowed for a choice between a nice 944S2 or a mediocre 968, I'm not sure which I would go for.



Good luck!

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[carlos1963]

[quote name='wjk_glynn' date='Jun 5 2006, 12:10 AM']The 968 was an evolution of the 944S2. It was originally going to be called the 944S3, but Porsche's marketing folks decided to assign the model number 968 quite late in the development program.



The big differences between the 968 and 944S2 are:



* Lot of external sheet metal changes, considered by most to be better looking than the 944S2



* 968 added variable valve timing which adds roughly 30 hp (+15%) over the 944S2



* The transaxle is a completley different design and IMO a significant improvement over the 944S2. The 968 unit is a 6-speed G50 based design. One of the nicest shifting transmissions out there...



* The 968 clutch is a lot easier (and thus cheaper) to service than the 944S2.



* 968s were built at the Porsche plant in Stuttgart.  Most 944s, including the 944S2, were built at the Audi plant in Neckarsulm.



* The interior of the 968 is very similar to the 944, but in general the quality of the materials on some surfaces was superior (e.g. door panels)



* With each successive model, the 944 series got more refined. The 968 was the ultimate expression of that refinement and was definitely the best of that breed.



* Compared to the rest of the 944 models, a 968 is rare. But 944S2s are also rare. Its just that a 944S2 looks a lot more like the more numerious earlier models (including the turbos).



Where the cars are very similar are:



* Frame

* Brakes

* Suspension (rear on 968 was a bit stiffer to accomodate the heavier 968 transaxle)

* Maintenance and reliability



Now... in the US, a 968 will command roughly $5-7K more than a 944S2 in similar condition.



Are the improvements listed above worth the extra $$$? Only you can be the judge of that...  For me, its a 50:50 thing.



Karl.

[right][post="22326"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]



Karl, thanks for the info. I do like several fact about the 968; That was built in the Porsche plant. A lower production number. Also read that 80% the car was new VS 944. And that there seemd to be better quality materials. Although I have noticed in pictures, that the seats look more worn that those on the 944.

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[carlos1963]

Thanks to all for the feedback. I will continue to read about the 968 and continue to search for a 968. From what I have found, there are not too many in Florida, although I have read that some of you had to travel to Florida for the car. Just my luck, I guess timing is verythin. Are there companies that will provide a reputable mechanic to inspect a car, in the event that I decide to purchase a car in another part of the country. From what I have read, many of you have had to travel to find the right car.



AGAIN THANKS FOR ALL THE HELP!!!

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[RPM]

With a only around 5000 total coupes and cabriolets imported to the US you will probably have to travel to get the car that fits your price/color/options/etc.

The nice thing about this board - and 968.net as well - is a dedicated base of enthusiasts willing to do some of the legwork for you. As for mechanic's inspections, which we often refer to as pre-purchase inspections (PPI), board members can often recommend a shop local to the car that will do the inspection. It is not unusual for one of us to look at a car for someone and help arrange a PPI. If all checks out then you buy a one-way plane ticket.

I live in NC and found and purchased my car in NJ through this very process. Another good idea is to join Porsche Club of America through the PCA Quest program. This gives you access to the club's nationwide online classifieds - where there are 8 968s for sale today.



The key to this process is patience, healthy skepticism, and a bit of luck.



Don't be afraid to ask questions and search the archives. One last bit - There is a PPI checklist under the Buyer's Guide category if you have not found it already

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[carlos1963]

Ralph, thanks for the advise. I did find the PPI form, it was very detailed,with lots of info to digest.

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[carlos1963]

Does anyone here have any infoon this 968? It's currently listed on E-bay. The person selling the car mentions this website and 968.net.



I did notice that in the front part of the engine, there is a part missing, the black piece in front and next to the air intake? Is this just a cosmetic piece?



968 for sale Ebay



1992 968 w/79K miles. VIn#: WP0CA2961NS840412

Starting Bid $10500K.



From what the seller states, I am thinking it may need about $5000k to get it back in to shape. Some pictures do show some wear and tear and in less than perfect condition, when compared to some of the others I've seen. I am knew to this, am I in the ballpark with my observations? I am not familiar with the prices, but this is just my quesstimate from all the reading that I have been doing. This is all new to me. With that said, is the price fair/ I would think that $13K would be a fair price to pay, if the $5k in repairs is correct, totaling 18k? What do you think?

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[sbdrivingdotcom]

Spend 13k then 5k in deferred maintenance? That is much too high for a vehicle with 79k miles that is 14 years old. I would say offer 10k, 11k max. I've seen low mileage, well maintained 968s go for less than 20k so why pay nearly that much for an example with nearly 80k miles?



If it were up to me I'd wait. After 2 and a half years I found my 968 in a rare color combo with the right options and miles. You just have to be patient to find the diamonds in the rough. If you're not then you just have the rough. Best of luck.

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[josephsc]

It's good to see that you're expanding your search area to outside Florida. Since there were so few of them made, chances are good that you'll have to travel out of state for the right car.



However, this one is a Tiptronic (automatic) -- which most people find less desirable. In fact, the market seems to put substantial discount on 968's with Tiptronic transmission.



Key advice: be patient - but have funds ready. Especially during the summer when prices for sports cars jump (especially for convertibles).

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[Glau]

That is a really rough example that I would pass on unless it was offered at a very nice price (for me $10k or less on this car). Your $5k repair estimate could easily go towards the obvious that is wrong that can be inferred from pictures (nose damage, new top -- not just the back window as the stitching is gone from most of the top, seats, misc things broken in the interior). Exactly how much this car will need is really a complete unknown however until you get a PPI and see the repair history, and given that there has been no/minimal upkeep of the exterior and interior of the car I would assume the worst mechanical-wise.



A couple things that are red flags for me include: Missing the small grill where the tow hook screws in and missing the front vanity cover in the engine bay (and the rear one). The missing grill and front vanity cover would make me want to look for front end damage/repair. Why the vanitiy cover in the rear of the engine bay would be missing is a bit of a mystery, but a 92 should have both? The missing small grill almost always means the front end has been taken apart. The other big red flag is pictures are a bad way to judge paint condition and considering the writer of the description clearly likes to strech the truth I would be very afraid of the paint being in 6.5 out of 10 condition -- again here I would assume the worst and be thinking needs new paint until you can prove otherwise.



Just for fun I ran the carfax on this car and it lived in NY for 2 years, TN for 7, GA for >1, CA for 3, and SC for >1. No obvious issues on the carfax with repairs or the odometer reading.



Good luck,



Glau

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