[Ernie]

How much better than stock, do those JL's sound? They are a bit pricey, but if they sound great, I guess it's worth the investment.

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[flash]

they are fuller and handle a LOT more bottom end. however, if you are running a deck that has only bass and treble, and especially something with little power (like any blaupunkt deck) you won't be able to take advantage of them. they require a minimum of 40 watts per channel peak, and at least 18watts per channel RMS. anything less and you just get mush and distortion. there are some very nice very small amps out there now though. alpine makes one, and so does rockford fosgate. i've used them both recently, and with great results.



the biggest problem with this car though is speaker placement. if you use the OEM locations, you have to have a hell of an EQ to compensate. otherwise you get a pile up in the low mids, no bottom end, crazy harsh tones at about 2k, and sizzling sibilance. it really makes your ears tired.



frankly, i would choose a deck with a nice EQ and good power over changing speakers any day of the week. the OEM speakers actually aren't that bad. they don't handle a lot of power, and they don't reach down very low, but the tonal quality doesn't suck



none of this will make any real difference if you don't dynamat the car. it may sound great in the garage, but as soon as you start going down the road, it all goes in the garbage.

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[bombfactory]

Ryker - I have the same JL sub in the right cubby and my amp is mounted where the space-saver spare used to be. I ran my power wire from the battery, into the fender well area following the brake lines, then down the outside of the car through the brackets that hold on the plastic side panels. I drilled a hole in the spare wheel 'tub' for the wire to enter and used a rubber grommet to seal it up. Also added a ribbed plastic sleeve to the whole power wire for extra protection. Definitely no interference with the RCAs running under the passenger door seal trim piece.



I still need to do the rear fender mod so my rear speakers sound less boomy.

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[Ernie]

Flash, I have an Alpine CDA-7892 deck and an Alpine MRV-F450 amp. I have 8" Kicker subs (free air per your advice) in the cubby box. Kicker 4x6's in the rear, but stock set up in the doors. It actually sounds pretty good, but would the door speaker upgrade (with dynamat) be worth the $400+ pricetag without changing the head unit? Btw- I hope I'm not hijacking a thread?

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[apex]

Haha - Ryker sorry about the brain fart and thanks again for the help.

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[flash]

ernie - the amp is plenty. the deck lacks an EQ. that makes it hard.



if you dynamat the car, it will help a LOT. you will still be lacking any real control over the tone though. will it be better? well, you will have better low mids, and the crossover will give you some mid and tweeter control. the amp will help via its crossover too.



bottom line, it will sound better. is it enough? i don't know how discerning your ear is, so i can't say.

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[Ernie]

Thanks for the input. Much appreciated! Dynamat first and then decide if the upgrade is to follow.

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[apex]

Today is Dynamat Day. Er... Stinger Roadkill day. Let's see how far I get.



BUT - paging Flash. Let's talk equalization. I'm re-thinking my previously stated position of waiting until later, so started to research the topic. "Digital EQ" is proving to be way, way, over my head. I need some advice.



I'm looking for



- quality auto-EQ if you think that works - the microphone and auto-calibration worked wonders on my home system. Or is "tune by ear" the only reliable path?

- $400 or less

- simple set up, simple install. I'm thinking Pareto Principle here. RF 3.sixty.3 and similar are too complex, require a degree in electrical engineering, the purchase of a windows laptop, and three weeks with nothing else to do but fiddle with it. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/glare.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> Not gonna happen!

- works nicely with the Becker CDR-220 I've already invested in - but it seems like the Becker shouldn't present any unusual problems for any factory-integration type device.



JL Cleansweep seems to fit this bill, but maybe is supplanted by newer tech?



Can someone make some recommendations or just unpack this topic a little bit? Mostly I've been surprised by how arcane the eq/processor world is and need an experienced field guide.

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[dry664]

No personal experience but the JBL MS8 should fit the bill. But I think deaden like crazy first then see what it sounds like.



Inner and outer door skins, rear quarter inner and outer skin, trunk area under carpet and both cubbies. Use as much as you can.

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[dry664]

JL Audio Cleansweep 'cleans up' the signal from a factory headunit and lets you EQ. It doesn't give you any processing capabilities like a 3.sixty.3 or MS8.



DSP's like the 3.sixty.3 or MS8 let you alter EQ (like the Cleansweep) but additionally volume, time alignment and frequency range for each individual channel.



To use the processing capabilities to their fullest extent you really need a 6 channels of amplification. Then you will want a sub and another amp. Then you will realize like Flash and I that everything you do is trying to compensate for crappy speaker locations.



How far down the rabbit hole do you want to go?



Hows the deadening going?

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[apex]

Haha - I would like to lurk at the entrance to the rabbit hole and not fall in.



I had an informative conversation with my new friend at Crutchfield today. Unless I spend $600+ they don't have an EQ that has four input channels thus preserving fade control from the head. He's offered to have me come in no charge and they'll use their equipment and test tones to get the audio band at least flat to start. We talked about his audio control DQL-8 (discontinued). The AudioControl DQDX fits the bill @ $400 but weirdly the treble band tops out at 8k - unless 8K means "center of band" but even so... And the next step is the 3.sixty.3.



As for deadening - blew my time budget this morning looking for three-inch flex duct. Everyone's got four-inch. No three-inch to be found. This, of course, is for the famous rear speaker upgrade. But the car's apart, my crappy deteriorating carpet is pulled out and the project is started.

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[dry664]

Sonic Electronix has the MS8 for $480. The only way to go cheaper and get all the EQ you need is a different headunit such as the Pioneer 80PRS. Also has most of the DSP functionality of a 3.sixty.3/MS8 plus is a much better source than the Becker.



Like I said. Do the deadening and see how you like the way it sounds!!

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[flash]

yeah - the head unit is the easiest way to go. the best one for the buck i've found so far is the alpine. it was a 147BT. now i think it's the 152.



like i said though, start with the dynamat, especially in the doors. you need to put it on the OUTSIDE skin though, and not the inside skin. a pain to get in there, but it makes a big difference. once the car is fully deadened, the sound you do have won't be fighting the car. then you can decide if the controls you have are enough, or not. the tweeter control on the crossover will give you the ability to drop the very high end a bit, and the mid presence control gives you a bit there too. if the deck has a crossover that allows you to individually set front from rear, then pull the bottom end out of the fronts at about 100hz. if not, install a cap there. that should all help.

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[apex]

dry,



Do you have experience with the ms8 in a 968?



LOL I looked long and hard at the Pioneer. At this point in my project I'm just trying to save face with my better half by coming in $5 less than I would have if I'd started with that unit.



Meanwhile deadening first, new head, new speakers. Then we will see how it sounds.

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[flash]

ironically, i am thinking about putting a modified OEM 3 way setup in the front of the white car. i have one here, and am going to recone the mids. likely i'll couple it with a pair of JL 525s. it already has the tweeter in the OEM location, but the previous owner hacked up the front lower mounting point and deleted the housings under the armrest. i have a set of those too, and think i can get everything back to "normal" but with better speakers, and have the mids where they really need to be, all without having to go to the 944 door pockets, which would mean reupholstering the door panels (talk about a rabbit hole - that would lead to an all new full leather interior)

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[apex]

Flash please clarify - where exactly is the new better 525 location if you're sticking with the stock cubby and not going with the 944-speaker-forward option?



Another question for the masses - should I remove the wheel well carpet, and rubber pad, and soft pad on order to dynamat the well? Lotsa layers there already.

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[dry664]

[quote name='apex' timestamp='1407679737' post='161053']

dry,

Do you have experience with the ms8 in a 968?

[/quote]



No. I haven't used one but they have a good reputation for ease of use and I know they have a pretty reliable auto eq.

I'm using a Clarion CZ703e which has a load of DSP features built in and a 5 band parametric EQ (which is very awesome but quite heard work).

[quote name='apex' timestamp='1407679737' post='161053']

Another question for the masses - should I remove the wheel well carpet, and rubber pad, and soft pad on order to dynamat the well? Lotsa layers there already.

[/quote]



You don't need to 100% cover everything in dynamat. 60-80% is great. Best way to tell is to knock on the panel. If it resonates add more dynamat, if it sounds dead then its good

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[flash]

there is no better spot for the 525 if using the stock map pockets. as i said, i am thinking i will reinstall the 3 way OEM set up, as the car already had the mids there, but using the 525 woofer and tweeters instead of OEM.

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[bombfactory]

Newer graphic EQ's are getting hard to come by these days. If you don't mind something that might have some miles on it, I bought one of these off eBay:

   

Alpine ERE G-180 - 11 bands plus sub level, fader and BBE sound processing. 3 pairs of RCA outs - front, rear and sub. (Flash will say you'll need two of these tho, one for the front speakers, one for the rears :-)

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[apex]

Bomb



Thanks for your post. I've learned a lot about EQ in the last two weeks - still have a lot more to learn. Graphic EQs are inexpensive. - used or new. It's the processors that start to get pricey.



OK! Dilemma!



Been a long since I took the rear panels off and exposed the rear 6.5's. Feeble excuse for forgetting the rears are not coax but in fact component. I have coax 6.5 jlAudio's on the way. What should I do? Abandon the stock tweets? Or send the coax back and retain the separate tweeter mounting?



BTW the back of the coupe is starting to look like the lunar landing module with all the silver deadening in place back there. :-)

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