[jpk]

I just got my set of KW coilovers for the 968. I got the standard 968 package; Variant 3 with 340 F and 285 R springs.



I'm trying to figgure out what they mean in the instructions by "Before installation, the standard torsion bar has to be adjusted to the lowest position" That's all it says about adjusting the torsion bar. Does this mean adjust with the eccentric or re-index to the lowest setting?



The kit is supposed to allow the rear to be lowered 15 - 45 mm (0.6 - 1.8 inches) I just don't see how that could happen by just adjusting the eccentric. If anybody has any experience with this kit, I'd appreciate some help. Thanks.

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[flash]

it can't - regardless of how much the rear shock can adjust, the torsion bars will set the minimum height - the eccentrics only have about 3/4" adjustment by themselves



to get the range they are talking about, you have to delete the torsion bars or reindex them

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[Mark]

I'm going to recommend you go hit the UK forums as there is tons of info in the KW V3 setups there.



http://www.porsche968uk.co.uk/phpbb



A little info from over there

about the torsion bars, as long as you have a ride height of a CS e.g. 20mm lower than a Coupe the KWs will be fine.

It just means the KWs will be roughly in the middle of their adjustment when you put them on, and there is plenty of adjustment up and down.

If it was a Coupe without re-indexing your adjustment range would simply be 20mm shorter in one direction and you would also possibly hit the bump stops on the dampers when you have the dampers set to soft and go over particularly rough ground.

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[jpk]

Thanks for the info. It looks like I get to index the T-bars tomorrow.



Never looked at the 968uk forums before. I'll have to join up...

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[rustech]

It sounds to me based on the description that the torsion bars are to be reindexed to 0 spring rate or lower spring rate ("lowest possible setting") in which case the ride height would be determined soley by the perch adjustment on the rear coil overs.

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[flash]

oof - reindexing is not fun - good luck

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[jpk]

No worries... I've done it a couple of times on the old car. I just don't want to have to do it twice...

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[vnarma]

I just finished installing my KW Variant 3 on my '93 968 coupe. Yes, you do have to reindex the bars, else you'll end up with a '50s drag racer look. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/tongue.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />



This was my second reindex on a 924/944/968 series. Definately easier the second time. It's a good idea to refresh the bushings anyway on a 15+ year old car while you are in there. I went with the Elephant polybronze bushings for the torsion arm, and the Weltmesiter polygraphite for the aseemby mount to the body. I left the inside control arm bushing stock. I took lots of photo's, and made notes of a few little gotta's with the KW's which aren't well described in the instructions (Actually there is nearly nothing in the instructions other then recommended initial bump/rebound and minimum height setttings). 968's are MUCH easier to workon the torsion bar than the 924/944, if you take the sill plates off. Do expect to need to replace clips when you tkae them off however.



On the reindex, I found one inner tooth was just right. It gave me the 330mm rear height I was looking for, and allowed me to return the eccentric to the center position. I'll post the full debrief in the coming days. I finished the installation last night, and had just enough light outside to take a couple of quick photo's. Car will get a full track alignment this week, and then I'll have a better idea of how it performs. Initial drive around the neighborhood, without an alignment, was very favorable. Firmer, well damped, but not harsh. I still have the sill plates off of the car. I'll reinstall after the alignment, as I wanted to replace the gaskets and clips.







I'm running with Forgeline RS's. 8x17 / 9.5x17, with 245/40-17 Fronts, and 274/40-17 rears. I have older second hand R3s05's on them now, but will be changing to Hoosier A6's for autocross. Not sure what I want to get for the track as yet. May just run with the R3S05's for the beginning of the season.



Clearance with the KW's in front is excellent. Plenty of space, despite the 1/2 wider rims:







I used the height settings from the PorscheUK site: 320mm front, and 330mm rear.









More to follow.

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[Mark]

Fantastic, I look forward to your write up and glad to see the car is coming along nicely.

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[vnarma]

Thank You Mark. I'll do a detail posting on the KW and on installing Race Shells in the 968 (Almost as bad on the knuckles as changing exhaust manifolds on a 951). The KW's have another undocumented benefit; they are 5lb lighter a corner in front than the factory M030 setup. All unsprung weight. Weighed on a certified postal scale. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/biggrin.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />



I'm adding the Rennline Rollbar, and Schroth 6-point harnesses this weekend. Passenger side is in, but my order from CDOC lacked one R9005 harness mount for the tunnel side. Considered just drilling through the tunnel, as the factory had done on the 944's, but it would have been a tight fit with the stock exhaust, and required dropping the Catback exhaust. Beside, the BK mounts are really beautifully made.

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[Apex Rex]

Vaino, car looks great! Maybe I'll be able to catch a ride in it sometime. You'll have to help me out with a suspension when the time comes for my 968.



My Redline bar should be arriving on wednesday.

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[vnarma]

Okay, the beginnings of my installation have been documented, more to come. I have posted them on my website at:



Vaino's 968 Suspension Upgrades Page

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[jpk]

Thanks very much for your comments and suggestions Vaino. I just finnished up the rear installation. I just indexed the T-bar back 1 inner spline, and it'll give me all the adjustment I need.

It'll be a couple of weeks before I can get to the front, and I need to get a few parts in the meantime. Since I took them off anyway, I want to replace the brake hoses.

You were absolutely right about the clips for the sill plates. I'll need to get a few of those. I didn't think it made that much of a difference though. I still had to pry the torsion beam down from that silly bracket on the torque tube to get it low enough to take the tosion beam caps off and get to the bars. I'm glad I've only had to go through this every couple of years...

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[vnarma]

Well I've had a little time to drive with the KW system.



First Impressions:

Settings:

I used a configured reccommended by a few drivers who run in the Cup series in the UK, with 968 CS's. I took a configuration half between there "Street" and their "Track" settings. Both are stiffer than the factory 'baseline" provided in the documentation.



Street

Ride quality on the street, with street tires, is very nice. Not rough or jarring at all. Definately stiffer, but feels much smoother than the M030 equipped 944/968's I've driven. Especially noticeable is how it handles big bumps, which it now absorbs cleanly, maintaining traction. Fast lane changes are quick and clean. Brake dive appears very well checked.



Autocross

Drove this past Sunday at the MSNE Autocross, on the R3S04's. No traction, but the handling was wonderful at the limit, despite the cold hard tires. Very smooth and controllable, despite the rough surface. Did a piroet on the return, but it was amazing easy to recover and continue through. Very pleased so far. With the Hoosiers on, the car would make an excellent drift car, where it easily would hang the tail at will. WIll drive with a set of one year old V710's this Sunday, I'll get to see how it really does.



Track

Pocono North, with Late '05 V710's with about ~70 runs on them in 245/45-17. Stock 26.8mm front bar, and a 18mm rar bar with Rod Endlinks. In one word - "Awesome". Much, much better than I expected. Neutral, with a very smooth transition to power induced oversteer. Turn #2 after turning in off the bowl, at the apex applying power give a nice bit of additional rotation, and I would be lined up for the next turn perfectly at track out. Stablity at speed in the bowl was excellent, as was control under hard braking. Unlike my 924S, I could apply power firmly out of corners. Car was very responsive.



So, far the balance spring rates, and damping setting seem to be right (I might stiffen the rear damping just a little). Overall extremely happy with the setup. Useable on the street, excellent at Autocross and Track. Can't ask for more!



Have fun, I will!

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[333pg333]

Nice to hear of other satisfied users of this fantastic product. It's slowly catching on in the 'states and especially after the demise of Leda's. I love my KW's and will happily continue to recommend them.

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[KMR968Turbo]

Nice write up! I'm going to get a set for my car too. If I read everything correctly you didn't change the torsion bars. Has anyone ever considered changing them? I have a set of PowerBarz torsion bars (32mm) that I was going to put in my 951 but would they be good in the 968 with the KW Varient 3's?

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[JWahlsten]

I'm curious why you'd want to go with a larger torsion bar with a coil-over shock set-up. Coil springs are available in nearly any stiffness to adjust the spring rate to what you want.



I'm currently saving my car points for a set of these as well.

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[KMR968Turbo]

[quote name='JWahlsten' post='33865' date='Apr 8 2007, 07:29 AM']I'm curious why you'd want to go with a larger torsion bar with a coil-over shock set-up. Coil springs are available in nearly any stiffness to adjust the spring rate to what you want.



I'm currently saving my car points for a set of these as well.[/quote]





Good point. The 951 doesn't have the rear coil overs so that would explain why they would be needed in that car. Since the KW's in a 968 are all that are needed and I assume they are spec'd out for the stock 968 bars I guess there is no need to change the bars out. Why not eliminate the t-bars completely with the coil overs then? Wouldn't that make changing ride heights easier?

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[JWahlsten]

[quote name='KMR968Turbo' post='33876' date='Apr 8 2007, 01:57 PM']Why not eliminate the t-bars completely with the coil overs then? Wouldn't that make changing ride heights easier?[/quote]



I actually had rear coil-overs on my 951. However, they were not part of the factory set-up. The 89 951 had larger torsion bars (25.5mm).



The subject of removing the torsion bars is a hot topic, but there are guys around here doing it successfully. The best way to do it is to get the Koklen kit($$$), or at least replace all of the bushings that allow movement in the rear. Having the Racer's Edge lower bolt kit is essential either way to allow the rear trailing arms to take the suspension loads. I'd like to do this as I think you get a much more adjustable suspension and lower weight as well.



Some racing classes say you have to keep the torsion bars though, and that alone keeps a lot of guys from doing it. You'll see some cars with the torsion bars turned down to nothing just to meet the rules...

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[vnarma]

There are several articles on the risks of removing the torsion bars, so I won't go through it here. The stock bar on the 968 is a 25.5mm as well, same as the '89 951.



The KW did well at Pocono. As you can see, it sits very well now.

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