[Cloud9...68]

[quote name='LivingDust' date='Jun 27 2005, 07:05 PM'] 

But there are other shops in town (Austin, TX)...

Scott[/quote]



Scott,



You live in Austin, too? What part (I live southwest)? I'd like to compare notes on mechanics, etc. Do you know of any other 968 owners in Austin? Shoot me a PM.



Andy

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[LivingDust]

For all the trouble (dents) this has caused so many people, how much stiffness have you all gained in return?



My next improvement is the Flash designed roll-bar, and after that, a chip. But after that, I am not sure...

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[flash]

ok - not to be nit-picky, (ok, who am i kidding?) but an "anti-roll bar" is a sway bar - it reduces body roll, hence the name



i'm not doing any of those



a "roll bar" is a safety device that is actually a "roll-over protection bar"



i am doing one of those



the answer to the first question is "lots" - it really tightens up the chassis, especially on a cab - you won't really feel it on the freeway, but toss it into a tight high speed corner and enjoy

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[LivingDust]

[quote name='flash' date='Jun 28 2005, 07:53 PM'] 

ok - not to be nit-picky, (ok, who am i kidding?) but an "anti-roll bar" is a sway bar - it reduces body roll, hence the name 

 

i'm not doing any of those 

 

a "roll bar" is a safety device that is actually a "roll-over protection bar" 

 

i am doing one of those 

[right][post="6504"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right] [/quote]



I don't think I used the term anti-roll-bar when talking about the "Flash designed roll-bar." And I was not confused as to whether your roll-over-protection roll-bar was a performance improvement. But it will be a great improvement none-the-less as it will mean that I can take it to my local PCA sponsored DE's.



But now you have me wondering whether a strut-brace will come before or after a performance chip. I do throw my car into corners at times, and I have noticed some slop. But I have not yet been able to test the difference my new struts, springs and heavier anti-roll bars have already done for me. (Chasing down a battery drain...)



I can't tell you how much I enjoy this forum!

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[flash]

now that you've done all of tha suspension work, certainly take advantage of what it has to offer - you can't really do that though on stock alignment specs, nor can you really modify those specs without eliminating the camber change that happens in chassis flex first



enter the strut tower brace



there is a really good article on the kla site that explains how this works



once you've got it in, then go to the alignment spec thread and check it out - i've posted a series of modded specs based on different driving needs



then it's off to a GOOD alignment shop - make sure you get a 4 wheel alignment, complete with ride height



you will be amazed at the difference

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[Silver BLT]

After marinating in it and simmering on a slow burn for a few days, I have found the taste of crow to be almost palatable. It was MY fault that the KLA BAR ends caused damage to the hood. MY FAULT, NOT KLA's. Their design and application is VERY tight tolerance wise, but I cannot see with the design of our cars how it could be otherwise. When I test fitted the brace (in total) I had installed it with the bar on the Windshield side as per KLAs instructions. When I powder coated the support arms I reassembled the unit wrong, and thusly installed it. Coming from a Construction and building forensics science background I instinctively assembled the unit with the loading force being downward in direction. Placing the bar on the Inside of the support arms instead of on the outside (rearward side) OOPS!

It pleases me to have such interest and sympathy from the 968 crowd, even sharing of the same mistake that has been made by others. I don't feel quite so stupid.

Thanks once again Flash for pointing out my installation errors, it has been corrected and the appropriate phone calls have been made. (Crow still tastes like $hit, but at least its tender <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/dry.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> )

The alignment specs (Ala Flash)(aggressive performance) were discussed with the mechanic prior to alignment and he agreed with the "hotter" than stock settings should perform better and enable longer tire wear. On the way home I looked for (and found) rain grooves cut into the freeway lanes to test the "wandering" of the alignment. Tracked straight and true, not any sign of squirm or off tracking. Found the raised asphalt to concrete junction as predictable as an arrow, straight up and over, no tossing or pulling, just up and over. No Problemo. Cornering has not yet been tested fully so I cannot speak about it yet.

The Paint less Dent remover comes to the house tomorrow morning and I hope he can work magic on my hood with juvenile breasts. I will post pictures afterwards, either way it works out. I may get lucky, no cracked paint at this point.



Thanks for the sympatathy.

Silver BLT (Ron)

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[Anchorman]

This is one heck of a stand-up guy. Way to go, Ron. Especially glad that your car's performance is so improved.

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[rustech]

Hopefully the paint is not stretched too much either nor does it seperate from the metal when corrected.



My quick story: Had my brace installed with brackets towards the back of the bay, and bar behind it. I checked clearance between the hood and the bar, and had enough to feel comfortable.



Washed out and detail my engine bay one day. When finished, closed hood, only to see a convex dent on one side. What the f#$%! Opened the hood, noticed the hose had washed out the rubber hood rest by the strut tower on that side. The rubber piece was missing the bottom part that holds it in place, so it simply washed out. Moral, the missing rubber piece allowed the hood to flex lower in that area and make contact with the bar. I don't see it in your picture, and so please make sure they're in place because I would hate to see it happen again.

it's not the missing rubber blocks that are the problem (though those should be there for other reasons)

Though some think they are only there for "other reasons", let me assure you they should be there for this reason also.

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[mitch968]

Where exactly are those rubber blocks supposed to be located? I have the blocks, but want to make sure they are in the optimal position. I'm thinking about getting the KLA brace and would like to avoid any problems. Given the tight clearance, I wonder if it would be a good idea to slightly realign the hood to make it sit a millimeter or two higher than normal in back. Thoughts?

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[flash]

they go right at the spot where the rear wall meets the sides



eric, i suspect your hood is or was misaligned - this is extremely common - i've seen misaligned hoods now in about one in 4 cars - the compound angles in the design mean that a millimeter off in fore/aft alignment makes bad stuff like that happen - dropping the hood from 12-16 inches should not cause deflection to the extent that you have a problem, even with the blocks missing, as long as the hood is in the correct place in all directions - it is extremely adjustable, in every direction, including vertically, but this can take a while to get it right - i'd be happy to take a look and set it right - don;t we need to do some more realigning of your doors anyway?



that being said, it can still happen, these cars were hand assembled - you never know where the tolerances will accumulate



also, the hood will vibrate without the blocks - this is bad and is very hard on the hardware

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[Silver BLT]

Could someone please post a picture of these rubber "blocks" and their location(s)

Rustech is correct in that I do not have any blocks to support the hood and it wriggles (technical term) a lot at freeway speeds. I did not know that wasn't normal <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/ohmy.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> . I assume this is a Dealer only item? Sunrise?



Thanks

Silver BLT

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[rustech]

Looks like you can conduct your own test then, remove one of your blocks, and drop your hood. Please take pictures! <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/biggrin.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />



I assure you, my hood is perfectly aligned, though I agree there is plenty of variation, kind of like the great distance between your engine and your strut brace, it seems like yours has three times the distance, but that is probably just worn motor mounts, I can help you replace those if you like.



Food for thought: Missing only one rubber support creates side load and would deflect the entire hood load in a downward angle towards one side. Missing one might be worse than missing both.



Don't always assume your car is the "model" for correctness. You're quick to tell someone their car is just defunct, like when I had a bad alignment (Lucent Motors) and you told me my frame must be bent.



Again, don't dismiss what you don't know. My comment is for those that want to consider it.

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[Etnier]

Here we are, perched over the passenger's side of a white '93 US Coupe, looking straight down at the block in question. The block, in the center of the frame, is one piece which wraps around the bumper/body flange and is glued in place with 3M Super Weatherstrip adhesive or something like it.



The "'93 Shroud" designation refers to the plastic shroud which serves as an engine bay trim piece in pre-1994 968's.

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[ds968]

my driver's side rubber block is missing. not sure for how long.. but riding with just one doesn't seem to cause Lance Armstrong any lack of balance ( oh, man, sorry, just could not resist that one.. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/tongue.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> ) so I have not noticed the hood vibrating or being misaligned / unsymetrical..



nonetheless, I'm buying the missing piece as soon as I can find it - Sunset might even stock these things.

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[rustech]

but riding with just one doesn't seem to cause Lance Armstrong any lack of balance ( oh, man, sorry, just could not resist that one..  )

Oh man, that was a low blow (I didn't mean it that way Dan!). <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/rolleyes.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />



I think they are a rip. I think they were $20 a piece at Sunset for each ball of rubber.

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[ds968]

[quote name='rustech' date='Jun 29 2005, 08:52 PM']Oh man, that was a low blow (I didn't mean it that way Dan!).  <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/rolleyes.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />



Now why would I think Sheryl Crow while reading the above remark ?  <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/ohmy.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />  <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/biggrin.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> 



I think they are a rip.  I think they were $20 a piece at Sunset for each ball of rubber.



Yeah, that figures - dealer price.. if at Sunset they cost $ 20 , I'd hate to think what other dealers might want !

I might check with parts heaven because they have a couple of 968s in various stages of dismantling, so it's possible the rubber pieces may be in decent shape..and dirt cheap. 



[right][post="6573"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

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[ds968]

wtf ? I totally screwed up the quote screens - too late in the evening for an old man like me to be typing - off to sleep now <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/wink.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/rolleyes.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[mitch968]

Looks like it's part# 94451148500. 13 bucks and change at pelicanparts.

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[968 Cab]

IIRC those rubber blocks are common to all 944 series cars, and with all the parts cars around, should be easily obtained.



Don't have my 951s here right now to confirm though

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[ds968]

well, $ 13 is not bad - thanks for the info



and if they're the same as the 944, then salvage yards must have hundreds , but

not sure what shape something made out of rubber can be in after so many years,

now that I think about it - probably should go for new ones.

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