[Cloud9...68]

It's such a shame that this will never come to be, because after my latest DE (about which I giddily post my promotion to solo status in the Racing forum <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/tongue.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> ), there's no doubt in my mind that in a DE situation, where you have the throttle floored about 80% of the time, an ITB would would truly be an incredible set-up. Especially in conjunction with a head ported to take advantage of the extra flow, cams tuned for the same purpose, headers, and a chip tuned to work in concert with all of the above (all of which RS Barn could provide). Yes, it would be VERY expensive, but imagine the experience of coming screaming out of a turn, catching the next gear, throttle mashed to the floor, with the thrust and aural feast of probably 320+ deep-breathing horsepower propelling the car up the straight. Ah, well, the four holes I've drilled into my airbox will have to soldier on as a reminder of what might have been, had Porsche priced this car competitively enough to have sold more that the seeming handful that made it to our shores...

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[Mark]

[quote name='Cloud9...68' post='38570' date='Jul 21 2007, 10:57 AM']a head ported to take advantage of the extra flow[/quote]



Head already flows enough air, too much for a normal 968. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[Cloud9...68]

Really? So I wonder what RS Barn's Stage 3 head mod does...



Also, hypothetically, if an ITB system ever became available for our cars, would increased air flow through the head be of any benefit, I wonder?

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[Fox944]

[quote name='Cloud9...68' post='38582' date='Jul 21 2007, 05:53 PM']Really? So I wonder what RS Barn's Stage 3 head mod does...



Also, hypothetically, if an ITB system ever became available for our cars, would increased air flow through the head be of any benefit, I wonder?[/quote]





absolutely. My car's head was rebuilt by power house. Its Ported/Polished, i have a 3-angle valve job & my compression is up to 11.6:1 (stock = 11.0:1). Just with the head alone and no other modifications done, the car felt much stronger.



With Cams & ITB's, there would not be enough air flow to fully take advantage of the set-up on a stock head.



aside from the headwork i have the RS barn header/exhaust/stage 2 software, Air bx modification & a 12.5LBS flywheel. I'm going to do Cams next...and then eventually ITB's. So yes..they will exist...at least 1 set of itb's anyway. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/cool.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[Cloud9...68]

[quote name='Fox944' post='38583' date='Jul 21 2007, 06:15 PM']...and then eventually ITB's. So yes..they will exist...at least 1 set of itb's anyway. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/cool.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />[/quote]



Definitely keep us posted! Have you contacted LHP? I've been to their web site, and their ITBs look more like works of art than automotive parts. Very impressive. Let us know how you come along (wait, I already said that...). But I just don't understand how the custom fabrication needed for an ITB could possibly be offered on a car that was produced in such limited numbers. I would think at least 10 would have to be sold for LHP to even break even on the development and casting costs, and I don't think we have that many people willing to pre-purchase ITBs. But thanks for keeping the dream (hopefully) alive.

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[Fox944]

If no one else steps up to the plate, i will have to eat the development costs. But once the Units exist with proven gains...i am pretty sure others will follow and buy a set.



& yes, i spoke with LH.

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[flash]

say what? you would have to pay for the development? what's up with that? because it would be a one off at that point?



if that is the case, you would at least own the rights to it, so that could be cool i guess - lol - though you would then be in the same boat as pete and i, and that's not always fun



good luck

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[Cloud9...68]

On haywardperformance's web site, there's a link to what's referred to as "projects." These appear to be one-off applications, and appear to be the type of thing that Fox944 is contemplating. I'm not sure if any of them ever become commercialized; of course, it must depend on the demand.

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[Fox944]

There are a couple of other guys interested. However, They are looking to use ITB's in a racing application for a track car. My car plays double duty as a street weekend car & sees light track use. So my ITB set-up wont be as potent, but more streetable.



There are still a few things i need to get done to my car before i pursue ITB's, but i'll get there. As far as the motor goes, i still need to get Cams from Pete in there. With my head work & Cams, i should be able to take great advantage of ITB's.



Based on what LH has done for other applications in terms of power as well as our converation...i have full faith that there is power to be had with ITB's, and if anyone will get them done properly..it would be him. He has an excellent reputation amongst many enthusiasts.

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[Renalicious]

Theoretically isn't creating ITBs as simple as removing the intake manifold, sticking some pipes on the block and dilling a hole straight through for the throttle? But I assume it would be akin to welding a pipe to a metal box and calling it an exhaust system. So the high cost really comes from trying to make something usable for the street, right?

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[flash]

they need to be perfectly balanced, just the right diameter going in and out, as well as the right length with exactly the same volume and velocity control, temperature, etc across all four - this is expensive to develop



i am interested to see what management system will be used, as well as what injectors

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[Cloud9...68]

I really need to convince my kids that college is a waste of time... <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/tongue.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[Renalicious]

LOL! There is always the lottery! <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/wink.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

If you win, performance mods for all? <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/biggrin.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[Cloud9...68]

[quote name='Renalicious' post='38726' date='Jul 23 2007, 10:43 PM']LOL! There is always the lottery! <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/wink.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

If you win, performance mods for all? <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/biggrin.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />[/quote]



You got it! As I've said in an earlier post, we should all make a pact that if any of us wins the lottery, the first, oh, $50K should go toward the development of some choice performance mods for our favorite car. ITBs would definitely be high on the list!

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[PorscheDude]

Found this the other day.

Use babelfish for translation.

http://www.luepertz-motorsport.de/html/porsche_968.html

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[Ryan]

Ever heard of that engine management they are using?

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[Cloud9...68]

The translation isn't easy to follow (anybody speak German out there?), but it does look like a bona-fide ITB system, given the description of the need to move the brake booster, which Hayward also talked about. So, at least it is possible. I thought I read that Pete was working on something along these lines...

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[flash]

oh, it's possible all right - there are a couple of cars that have done it



i'm just not sure how much power will be had, given that systems on other cars see maybe 30hp tops, and you would be giving up half that by getting rid of the dual resonant manifold, leaving a lot lower net gain than on other cars



on a race car though, every bit counts, and the other "issues" are a lot less important, so it may still be viable there

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[PorscheDude]

Probably a big loss of torque on the low end.

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[mattipuh]

In short, here's translation

"In order to improve the 968 motor performance they installed ITB to the motor. To do this, they needed to change the engine management soft from Motronic to

programmable 8860 Seq. Motorsport Motormanagement. They had some problems espec. with large brake booster valve (which was standing on way), they replaced it with hydraulic one with servopump from Audi. To get more out of motor, they replaced also larger injectors to the motor. After the ITB mod + other things done, car time on Nordschleife improved 15 secs compared to time before ITB. "

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