[Langley968]

I have been pondering posting about this for awhile, so here goes...



(I have searched the Forums to see if there was any topic about how other 968 owners tend to use their clutch and did not find anything, so here we go...)



My question stems form the following:

Do you sit at a red light with the clutch depressed?

OR

Do you shift into neutral and simply use the brake?



I am in the habit of down shifting as I approach a red light but before shifting down into first, I shift into neutral and slow the car down using the brakes. This habit comes from several people over the years telling me: "Brakes are cheap, clutches are NOT".

By sitting at a red light in neutral, one needs to be VERY attentive to what is going on, so that as soon as the light changes, you are ready to enagage and get going. I find that this habit makes me much more focused on my driving.



Question: does this habit help preserve the longevity of my clutch or not?



I have some personal history on this which I will share once others have chimed in.

Looking forward to some lively debate on this <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/excl.png" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[Lord_Galva]

I suspect it does. Your not using the clutch in neutral.

I always shift into neutral when stopping because of my drop foot however.

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[TonD]

On any and all cars I've driven, I've sat at the light with the clutch depressed. Never had issues with clutch, then again never had a car for more than 100,000 kilometers.

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[tamathumper]

I'm six of one, half a dozen of the other.

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[Rap]

I put it into neutral as you do. How about asking the question regarding what people do on hills with their clutch? My answer is the same!

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[flash]

sitting there with the clutch depressed causes wear on the release bearing. i broke myself of this habit long ago when i was driving british cars which had a carbon release bearing, and not the metal rotating one we have. it was very common to find cars with worn out release bearings, but clutch disks that were still useable.



on our car, while the metal bearing rotates and lasts a lot longer, it is still subjected to wear when the pedal is depressed. this also generates more heat in there as it rotates, which transfers to the friction disk and causes it to wear faster

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[ds968]

90% of the time in neutral at stop lights, or stop signs, and even in bumper to bumper traffic when often the car may have to come to a complete stop for a second or two or three.. 10% riding the clutch , but if I'm stopped on a steep hill with other cars way closer than they should be right behind me..I!m on the clutch probably 90% of the time in those situations

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[robadams56]

I do just as you do. Move the shifter into neutral, but I watch the lights and as I anticipate green I go ahead and depress the clutch and shift into first. I also do a quick check to make sure it's not in reverse. When I acquired the car, it took me a while to discern the feel of 1st versus reverse. Fortunately, no incidents of backing into the car behind me. It's really no longer a problem.



I would also suspect that depressing the clutch puts pressure on the clutch line (hose). Mine has not been converted to the DS1 braided line yet, but it's on the to-do list.

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[flash]

i take a further step - i shift into second before going into first when sitting at a light. this is also a left-over from driving british cars. in the early ones, they didn't have a second gear synchro, and you had to hit second so as to line up the gears and avoid the dreaded "crunch"



lol - and it's D1R not DS1

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[Cloud9...68]

Good topic. I put it in neutral when stopped. In fact, I pop it into neutral during the latter part of the braking process.



Of course, my car has been out of comission so long, I'm not sure I remember how to drive a stick shift anymore!

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[Chris Vais]

I just replaced my clutch. The last went 130,000 miles so I must be doing something right. I routinely rev-match my down shifts. I usually come up to a stop light or sign in second gear and then put the clutch in as I brake to a stop. As soon as the car stops I move into first. If it is a stop sign I just hold the clutch in because the duration of the stop is short. At stop lights, I just keep the clutch in unless it is a larger intersection where you have left turn signals and the wait duration is longer. I don't often drive the 968 in San Francisco, but when I do I never ride the clutch when stopped on a hill. I just use the brakes. If someone gets to close behind me I just use the parking brake to hold position an let it off as the clutch is let out. This takes some practice to execute smoothly, but if you drive a manual transmission in SF you learn quickly. It is a Darwinian thing.

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[flash]

lol - sounds like the name of a band - "i can't drive stick - i'll drive stick"

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[TonD]

[quote name='Chris Vais' timestamp='1334844495' post='125631']

I just use the parking brake to hold position an let it off as the clutch is let out. This takes some practice to execute smoothly, but if you drive a manual transmission in SF you learn quickly.

[/quote]



Over here, where 90% of all cars used to be stick (slowly changing lately as autos are getting better and better and more fuel-efficient as opposed to less...) this procedure is part of standard driving lessons. In fact, you'll have to demonstrate you master the procedure on your driving exam. Yep, we actually have to drive (and I don't mean circle a parking lot either) before we get a license. Nothing as strict as some of the Scandinavian countries though <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/wink.png" class="smilie" alt="" />



That being said, I find it a tad difficult to do in the 968 as both the parking brake and the clutch are a bit more vague than on modern cars (i.e. my daily driver a 2011 MINI).

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[Ryan]

I hate the location of our parking brake. I find it hard to get my fat hand in there at times so I seldom use it.



I always pop my car in neutral coming up to a light.

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[Langley968]

Great feedback from everyone!

As [color="#225985"]robadams56[/color] mentioned, I also watch the traffic lights to anticipate the "green" and depress the clutch so I am ready to go. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/3gears.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />



With regards to location of "reverse" I had a RUDE awakening the day I picked up my 968 from the previous owners place. I went across the oncoming traffic lane and sat in the median waiting for a break to flow into traffic. BUT... I accidently shifted into "reverse" and nearly panicked as I was starting to back into oncoming traffic. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/glare.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> You learn FAST when that happens and it has never happened since.



Some years back I owned two new vehicles while living in Brazil. One for 160,000 Km with no visible sign of wear to the clutch and the second for 180,000 Kms, also with no sign of wear to the clutch. One conclusion I have come up with... mutiple users cause premature wear to vehicles.

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[BeBe]

I always shift down through the gears as I approach the light/stop sign and sit in 1st with the clutch depressed. That way, when I shift from 2nd to 1st, I know I'm in the right gear. One incident early on when I was accidentally in reverse when the light turned green was enough to make me gun-shy to find the correct gear when the light changes.

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[bombfactory]

Coming to stop lights, to save wear and tear on the brakes and clutch, I try to use engine braking (not clutch braking!) as much as possible. I'll rev-match shift from third to second - easy to do when you're not on the brakes - and let the drag from the engine scrub as much speed as possible before applying the brakes, then depress the clutch shortly before the car comes to a stop. Clutch out in neutral at the light always, to keep the throwout bearing happy. This technique seems to work - I've got around 120k miles on the brakes and clutch in my M3, and they're all still in fine shape.



I've never had a problem confusing first with reverse (it takes a LOT of effort to get into reverse!), but I have tried to start the car while it was in gear a couple of times and that freaked me out so now I compulsively row through a few gears and then wiggle the shifter left and right to make sure its in neutral before I turn the key!

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[DaveN]

I'm pretty consistent about placing the car in neutral when coming to a stop light. This protects the bearing albeit not as important as in the 'olden days'. I always anticipate a light if I can so that I don't have to stop and if I do it's with the brakes if I remember. It is better to use them as they are a lot cheaper to fix but sometimes I just love the double clutch, vrooom, vrooom downshift fun/sound.

I believe by law here in BC you are supposed to be in neutral at a light anyway, not sure anyone is even conscious of this rule. It is there to stop you from accelerating into the next vehicle in case you are rear ended and punch the gas.

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[robadams56]

Flash: not sure where DS1 came from .... have to stop this drinking.



To refine the topic a bit more when I approach a stop I "double clutch" as I work down through the gears. If you are not familiar with this old school term (taught to me by my Dad who not only flew everything the ARMY had but drove the big troop haulers and used this method when downshifting) it involves shifting to neutral, letting out the clutch and blipping the throttle, then engaging the clutch, shifting to the lower gear and then finally letting out the clutch. The thought is that this brings the all the components up to the same speed before engaging. Makes for some very smooth downshifts.



I'm sure this will generate some discussion and I am looking forward to hearing comments.

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[flash]

yup - racers often call it "gear matching". same technique, but no stop at neutral. you learn to time your appendages and work them in concert

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