[Cloud9...68]

I wonder why I never hear this option being discussed on any of the new outlets.  Seems logical to me, but I have zero military background or diplomatic knowledge.  It's kind of disgusting the way the entire world is so deathly afraid of making Putin mad, which effectively allows that vile piece of human garbage to call the shots, a fact of which I'm sure he's well aware.

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[netopyer]

Kudos to Slovakia, the first NATO country with balls !   They provided Ukraine with a multitude of the latest high tech surface to air missiles, capable of taking out any Russian jets   .. there’s your no-fly zone ..

it is not that  high tech, it is just old S300 which Ukrajinians  know how to use because they have them already, and we do not need them, because US/NAto will  place Patriots here

there are fake-news where russians claim that they already destroyed it,  adding a video from 30th march, they were moving out of my country  much later...

 

 

as for the attacking russians on Ukrainian land, Nato is a defense pact, and you cannot  attack any foreign army on a land of a country which is not  in NATO. they want  to play by rules.

my opinion is,. that before the invasion, Ukraine should have invited NATO for a special exercise on Ukrainian land.

my second opinion is, that when i see ruzzian soldiers raping toddlers, i am 100% pro  for a strike which will clean UA from russians and clean russia from the  planet.

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[Cloud9...68]

I wasn't thinking of anything within NATO - I was thinking more along the lines of when Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait, when a large coalition of outraged nations got together and blasted Saddam's military presence within Kuwait into oblivion, but then never went into Iraq.  Of course, Saddam didn't have nukes, but again, Putin's using them against a large coalition of nations spread throughout the globe would be suicidal, and therefore unlikely.

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[ds968]

NATO is indeed a defense pact , but that’s the rule ..to every rule there is an exception which is compelled by unprecedented circumstances .  But I’m not even professing NATO personnel attacking Russia on the soil of a non-NATO nation, I’m merely suggesting arming Ukraine with as many sophisticated arsenal as NATO nations can spare, and let the Ukrainians do the job.  No matter how backed into a corner Putin may be, his generals will never obey his orders if he pushes for a wider scale nuclear warfare, knowing full well that will mean the obliteration of fist and foremost their families, and mother Russia in entirety as a nation .  And Putin does not have nearly the absolute power that someone like Kim Jong Un has in North Korea, when it comes to nuclear launch capabilities.  Not everyone in the Duma is insane and he is, nor is everyone at the command center of ICBMs that crazy, or suicidal .

But as everyone said, hopefully someone on the inside will take him out sooner than later .   

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[Cloud9...68]

The depth of the savagery and depravity of the Russian government reaches new levels on a daily basis.  I think the rest of the world still hasn't fully comprehended what absolute scum these sub-humans truly are.  The total disregard for the truth, the any-means-justifies-the-ends approach to everything they undertake, the brazenness with which they eliminate all opposition, is on a level that people accustomed to living under a system with checks and balances and open access to independent sources of information have a difficult time processing.  Of all the options to end this war, anything involving a negotiated settlement with these vermin must not even be under consideration, because they will turn around and violate it, to the shock and amazement of the civilized world, the minute it becomes expedient.  

 

I hope that fully arming the Ukrainians will get the job done, but it's going to be a tough slog, given the scorched earth methods of the otherwise utterly inept Russian military.  The West needs to figure out a way to quickly wean itself off of Russian oil and gas as a means to collapse the Russian economy, because while I'm sure it's true that Putin doesn't have quite the absolute power of a Kim Jong Un, he seems to have a very well fortified security staff, so I'm afraid it's going to take something pretty drastic to allow him to be taken out from within.

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[Rap]

As long as Putin contains his depravity to just Ukraine the world will merely watch and complain. The world underestimates him and now calls him crazy because his actions don’t conform to our way of thinking. The moral high ground is marvelous to sit on and pontificate from. Yet until the world tailors its response to the reality of what we see, not want, there will be ongoing horror. When one side plays by rules and the other side doesn’t the outcome is certain. Putin armies weakness’s have been exposed. Do we see any tactical response to exploit them? Or are we allowing him to regroup and fortify for his next assault. Actions not words are the only response.

mind you like most of our liberal forum members I am a pacifist.

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[netopyer]

i have a bad feeling in last days, looks like the siege of Mariupol will be sucessful  and they will massacre them all, and then  focus on "their" regions Luhansk and Doneck

i still see less support than they need from EU/civilised world

+ the butcher of syria was summoned.....

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[ds968]

A former economic advisor to Putin stated that a complete ban on oil and gas would cause Russia to go into a tailspin and stop the war immediately, and likely permanently , if the threat of that ban hangs over their heads in the future.   Russia just does not believe that’s possible because Western nations are not willing or even capable of making too many economic sacrifices .

And it sure looks as if they may be right ..western nations ( and of course I’m including the U.S., but mostly Europe ) are seemingly unlikely to tolerate the hardships to their own economies / population’s quality of life .  Yet, tolerating the deliberate mass murder of thousands of innocent civilians, including so many children, babies , somehow is ok, as long as it doesn’t hurt our wallets .  Disgusting !  The difficult part however, is also being able to convince China and India not to provide Russia with an outlet to sell their resources once the US and European imports stop cold .    No easy answers, yet a genocide campaign is unfolding right before our eyes.  

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[tejon007]

As long as Putin contains his depravity to just Ukraine the world will merely watch and complain. The world underestimates him and now calls him crazy because his actions don’t conform to our way of thinking. The moral high ground is marvelous to sit on and pontificate from. Yet until the world tailors its response to the reality of what we see, not want, there will be ongoing horror. When one side plays by rules and the other side doesn’t the outcome is certain. Putin armies weakness’s have been exposed. Do we see any tactical response to exploit them? Or are we allowing him to regroup and fortify for his next assault. Actions not words are the only response.

mind you like most of our liberal forum members I am a pacifist.

So ingenue. But it's really good to know that you're acknowledging we're finally pontificating from the "moral high ground". So infinitely better than the "moral low ground" of the previous administration...







ingenue

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[Rap]

Moral and politics don’t work together. Just as truth and politicians doesn’t. Doesn’t matter which administration.

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[tejon007]

Again, so ingenue (and cynical) and just plain wrong.



Conflating the evil dumba$$ of the recent previous administration & his ilk with decent, honest leaders/administrations is actually acting in the manner you're accusing all administrations/politicians. In other words, it's untrue & immoral.



Our country sank to a new and unprecedented moral low with the previous occupant of the White House. Hopefully, with time our country can recover before he and his ilk finish the destruction of our democracy.

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[Rap]

Characterizing my opinion as immoral seems to try to eliminate differing opinions.

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[tejon007]

OK then...what you said was untrue and delusional.



And it's not a "differing opinion". It's a fact. There are evil politicians (i.e. the evil dumba$$, his love Kim Jung Un, and BFF Putin) & there are honest/decent politicians.



And yes, the evil dumba$$ is immoral. So are those that continue to support him...his lies, his big frauds (i.e. that the election was stolen, which it wasn't), his attacks on our democracy, etc., etc.

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[MCL968]

I have a fear about the current goings-on and it has little to do with Ukraine directly.

 

Russia modernized and moved the goalposts on the game of chess. Their players were thinking 20 moves down the board when American and European players were thinking about the next 5 moves.

 

What if this is nothing more than an elaborate chess game, based on untruths, with the end game being to reinstate a Russian friend in the White House?

 

Consider this scenario, Putin sacrifices thousands of lives in Ukraine to terrify the world into thinking we are on the brink of a world war. His military losses are acceptable because they have little value, as are the losses of the Ukrainians. Pawns, if you will.

 

Thus far, no one has been able to get his ear and convince him to abandon this insanity. His inner circle has shrunk, and they all seem to support his ideas.

 

The world is in a panic, fuel prices are going up, instability is rampant. And then, Putin announces that he WILL talk with one, and only one person: Donald Trump.

 

Trump goes in and "convinces" Putin to abandon this folly, something he was already planning to do since he has reduced much of Ukraine to rubble, and that WAS the goal to begin with.

 

Trump is the hero, the world is again stable, Putin gets his buddy reelected, and gas goes down, although not to where it was before this began.

 

Check and Mate.

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[Cloud9...68]

You missed your calling as a spy thriller novelist   .  Anything is possible I suppose, but I think the element you may not be considering is the extent to which Putin's invasion has turned the entire free world (aka many of Russia's customers) against Russia.  So even if Putin calls off the war on Ukraine (unlikely, since they not only continue to amass forces in eastern Ukraine, but have resumed bombing near Kyiv, possibly in retaliation for the sinking of the Moskva), I bet the sanctions will stay in place, and more significantly, I believe Europe will continue with aggressive timetables to wean themselves off Russian oil, and ultimately natural gas.  This will be devastating to the Russian economy, to the point where it could ultimately threaten Putin's grip on power.  I don't see how the "Trump as savior" scenario changes this dynamic.  However, I don't have an alternate theory...

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[ds968]

Trump is nothing but a peon in Putin’s chess game .  He has the intellect ( along with the emotional maturity and all the other characteristics) of a four year old child, so Putin has used him as a hand puppet from the get-go, and will do that again given the opportunity to accomplish his despicable, immoral and downright evil goals .   

It’s up to Western Europe and the U.S. to bury that bastard  ( by causing Russia enough pain and suffering compelling them to take him out ) 

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[ds968]

And a bit of a lighthearted story in the midst of absolute misery ..

 

   


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<div>An improvement over car jacking.   Video link below.. 
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<div>                        Subject:  The John Deere Ukrainian Militia 

 

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https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-russian-...56402.html 





Here are some of the comments generated by the video: 



According to reliable sources, Ukrainian farmers are now the fifth largest army in Europe. 



The irony of Ukrainian farmers using American John Deere tractors to pick up abandoned Russian tanks should not be lost on anybody.  Good job, Ukrainian farmers! 



Imagine yourself as a Russian general, trying to explain to Putin you cannot attack your targets because a bunch of farmers grabbed your armour units. 



That has got to be the most humiliating sight in the history of warfare. You're this proud member of an allegedly world-class military, a farmer is towing your tank/APC/truck like you're 4 months behind on payments, and there isn't a damn thing you can do about it. 



Russia is becoming even more of a meme. Imagine laughing and joking like this in a middle of a war towing tanks with tractors.  Even in such terrible situation people can still laugh and cheer. Slava Ukraini! 



The farmers should send bills to the Russian government for the towing charges. 



If John Deere sends more tractors to Ukraine, would that be seen by Putin as an escalation of war? 



Russia wants to demilitarize the Ukraine but leaves tanks everywhere.... absurd 



Agricultural tractor just tows a deadly tank away... Can we take a minute to appreciate the peace symbolism of this? 



Looking forward to seeing this in an advertising campaign by John Deere. 
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[tejon007]

I have a fear about the current goings-on and it has little to do with Ukraine directly.

 

Russia modernized and moved the goalposts on the game of chess. Their players were thinking 20 moves down the board when American and European players were thinking about the next 5 moves.

 

What if this is nothing more than an elaborate chess game, based on untruths, with the end game being to reinstate a Russian friend in the White House?

 

Consider this scenario, Putin sacrifices thousands of lives in Ukraine to terrify the world into thinking we are on the brink of a world war. His military losses are acceptable because they have little value, as are the losses of the Ukrainians. Pawns, if you will.

 

Thus far, no one has been able to get his ear and convince him to abandon this insanity. His inner circle has shrunk, and they all seem to support his ideas.

 

The world is in a panic, fuel prices are going up, instability is rampant. And then, Putin announces that he WILL talk with one, and only one person: Donald Trump.

 

Trump goes in and "convinces" Putin to abandon this folly, something he was already planning to do since he has reduced much of Ukraine to rubble, and that WAS the goal to begin with.

 

Trump is the hero, the world is again stable, Putin gets his buddy reelected, and gas goes down, although not to where it was before this began.

 

Check and Mate.

Yes, I get your fear and have plenty of my own...



But, even though he's evil, he remains a dumba$$ (thankfully his violent insurrection turned into a failed coup due to his incompetence and the incompetence of those he chose to lead, like Giuliani, etc.). So his utter incompetence will likely save us.



In addition, Putin's ability to hack and influence our elections won't have the impacts they had in 2016. Remember that the evil dumba$$ lost the elections (fewer votes than his opponents) in 2016 and 2020 - - which makes him a loser twice over. So, our understanding of how to prevent social media manipulations (particularly by nation states) likely will help.



And finally, the evil dumba$$ will likely be in jail by then...so his crimes are likely to catch up with him by then and save us.



We have "outs".

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[ds968]

Headline : “ Before the Moskva there was the Kursk , the flagship nuclear submarine which sank during Putin’s rise to power “  



Well, in all fairness  the submarine’s demise was the result of notable Russian military inventor Boris Dumbkov who suggested equipping submarines with screen doors , to save weight …

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[ds968]

Hey, look Biden is talking about Putin again.. or about Trump.. 

 

   

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