[ds968]

With the fresh head ( all new valves, lifters, guides, gasket, seals, head rebuilt to factory specs and the timing on the dot ..) the car feels like it breathes better, it accelerates incredibly smooth and has a very strong pull throughout the entire power curve. Even the exhaust sounds better than before but even though it feels like it's absolutely flying once you step on it and it sustains that acceleration all the way to 7000rpm , the transition to what was a kick in the pants at 4200 rpm before the new head, now happens almost without a noticeable difference. There is still a very slight surge there so it hasn't entirely dissapeared but it's less than half of what I remember it to be...maybe not even that..a third. The car could be faster now at every rpm on the curve and more consistent so perhaps that takes away from the 4200 rpm delta experienced before the rebuild job, but I can't help feeling like it's not right.

I seem to recall few other posts where some said this is the way it's supposed to be ( that 4200 kick should only be barely noticeable, unless your lower rpms band is lacking a bit of all the power it should have and that's why the difference at that spot and beyond would feel more pronounced )
yet others disagree ..

So not sure what to think [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.gif[/img] [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/huh.gif[/img]

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[wasserkuhl]

Yes this is how it is supposed to be, with the engine breathing more efficiently that kick becomes more linear. So it pulls all the way rather than having a light pressure turbo style kick!

I wondered why mine had no kick until I realised what speeds I was doing !!! [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ph34r.gif[/img]

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[rhudeboye]

+1

I also had to take note of my speedo to truly appreciate what the chip has done as I loved the mini turbo feel at 4K.

However I'm surprised your car still had a strong kick with a chip installed, especially considering how clean your head was before the rebuild. All the rebuild work was obviously going to regain some lost power but now it seems that something may have been a bit off before the work was done. Considering your using the same chip.

Have you ever timed your 0 -60, G-teched or dynoed your car before hand?

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[ds968]

I never timed the 0-60 previously, but I did have a 1/4 mi time done on a "track and field" stop watch. However, that's probably not as accurate as a G-tech measurement and it was also with someone else riding in my car at the time, so I have to find a person of comparable weight to ride along and the same high-end chrono watch used to test it.. but I'm thinking even that's useless because all the variables from one day to the other and one drive to the next will impact the results even if I did not do anything to the engine, so unless we're talking about a significant difference of a couple of seconds which I seriously doubt is the case in either direction, it would be tough to compare.

Same chip being used. But the kick was there even with the stock chip, and whilst a bit faster all around after the
Racer X was installed, it still did not lose any of the mini-turbo delta. Perhaps it is more powerful and deceptively faster now, with a more linear curve.. the kick is not "gone" just less pronounced.

I'll be able to test the car when Trevor gets his belts done because we've had several runs starting around 20 or 30 mph all the way to 130-ish so I'll know right away if anything is off..

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[rxter]

I did two 8-second passes with my kid using his i-pod on a quiet street in San Marcos. That seemed about right for a 16 year old car with no mods, low compression, and a driver who has yet to learn how to DROP THE CLUTCH

I did two 8-second 0-60 passes (opposite direction same road to correct for wind, naturally [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif[/img] with my kid using his i-pod on a quiet street in San Marcos. That seemed about right for a 16 year old car with no mods, low compression, and a driver who has yet to learn how to DROP THE CLUTCH in this beast. And frankly, that felt pretty fast to me.

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[ds968]

and I was happy to consistently pull away from my friend's '04 or '05 or '06 ( heck I just can't remember what year he had anymore ) carrera 4 tiptronic cab which was a decade newer and with a market value roughly 4 times as much as our cars.. too bad he sold it a couple of years ago because at least I would have had a frame of reference to compare the before and after results of my valve job, racing him again..

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[rhudeboye]

<!--quoteo(post=75253:date=Jul 9 2009, 06:26 PM:name=ds968)-->QUOTE (ds968 @ Jul 9 2009, 06:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->and I was happy to consistently pull away from my friend's '04 or '05 or '06carrera 4 tiptronic cab<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Inpressive!

At 315HP thats no easy task. Not sure how much is lost going from tip to manual but either way I would expect the results to be flipped.

Around what speed would you start to pull away?

I had a few runs against a G35, he stayed with me up until about 85 then I started to step away about 2 car lengths, cross the 100 mark and I start pulling bus lengths on him. Most 6's cant hang with our 4's. But your talking Porsch on Porsch, so I suspect the engine fatigue at 100 wouldn't be there.

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[ds968]

<!--quoteo(post=75257:date=Jul 9 2009, 08:30 PM:name=rhudeboye)-->QUOTE (rhudeboye @ Jul 9 2009, 08:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Inpressive!

At 315HP thats no easy task. Not sure how much is lost going from tip to manual but either way I would expect the results to be flipped.
Around what speed would you start to pull away?
I had a few runs against a G35, he stayed with me up until about 85 then I started to step away about 2 car lengths, cross the 100 mark and I start pulling bus lengths on him. Most 6's cant hang with our 4's. But your talking Porsch on Porsch, so I suspect the engine fatigue at 100 wouldn't be there.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Shortly after going into third gear... every time. And stayed that way well into the 140+ mph when we both typically slowed down.. Mind you, it wasn't as if I was " leaving him bus lenghts behind", just slightly pulling ahead and keeping ahead by a car length or a bit more. 315 hp may be, but I think the C 4 cab ( not sure the 4 S is different [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.gif[/img] ) is hella heavy and maybe the tip gearing plays a role as well. Then again, with the chip
and the air box and the cat back and at roughly 75 lbs lighter than the stock this car is ( was ) also no slouch.. manual C4 coupe would probably have cleaned my clock, but this was about as close of a match to another Porsche I had any experience with..

Took it out for another ride this evening.. yeah, that old 4200 rpm kick is little more than just a trace of what it used to be. I really have to force myself to believe it's still there a little, but hopes are dashing.. Dammit, this is simply killing me, even though I keep hearing from many people who know these cars well that this is the ideal way it should act when the power is at its peak troughout the entire rpm band, and that the car IS faster, it just doesn't feel that way. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dry.gif[/img] I am just not quite sold on the reality of that.

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[wasserkuhl]

I know what you mean, it will bug you until its 'right' again.

I'd be doing a Dyno, a road dyno that is. Find a nice quiet peice of road or even a track and run against someone in a similar car. Swap driveres even if need be. Compare the times and I am sure you will be pleasantly surprised.

I recently went for a drive with a friend, he in his BMW 330i (E46) and me in my 968 CS. Now I know that mine is much lighter, more nimble, balanced and the torque is similar. BUT, when we changed cars I felt like the Bavarian 3er was driving in treacle, it just felt heavy and slow............(!) Lovely car but just for different purposes...

The 968 is deceptive, some people even think its 'slow' and 'needs more power'. Well, that may be, however in the right hands a decent one on good tires can make alot of younger more modern cars blush...

It just doesn't have that big fast WHAM like some traditional 'fast' cars do...

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[rhudeboye]

After Pete installed my chip he explained that the power would come on much smoother instead of the kick at 4grand. As I got on it on the way home I really appreciated that power down low but was also expecting more of a punch at 4k. It wasn't until I ran with a random passing car going home on I95 that I truly appreciated this chip. It was an accord or something (cant remember now) approaching fast. I dropped the car into 4th and hovered around 4K as watched him approach in rear view mirror. So Im doing around 70 and Im guessing he's approaching at about 85mph. When he got side by side with me I floored it. From 4K to 7K then into 5th. He only got about about .5 a car length in front of me before I made a counter pass. It was quite impressive! Much faster then when I bought the car to Pete.

So I agree with Wass. drive another 68 (not Flash's) or run against a car that know well. I think you'll feel better about your new engine.

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[Ryan]

Maybe the cam timing was or is a little different now. If the correct feel is smoother or more linier, than I would suspect that it is more "on time" now than before.

Just a thought......

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[ds968]

Well, all of this is reassuring [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif[/img] In time I'll realize it's probably just fine and more powerful no matter what my instincts , so hopefully the new "smoother" acceleration curve will eventually grow on me.

Yeah, I have no intention running it against flash's car... I hate to see my friends cry [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif[/img] Problem is he's a far better race driver than I am so we would have to switch cars, but I'm still willing to bet my car will at least stay neck in neck or maybe be even pull ahead ON A STRAIGHT LINE from a 40 mph start point all the way to the top end.

Ya hear that Bob ?! Find an old abandoned airport runway by the 25th of this month when I'm driving down .. That's not too much to ask, is it ?! [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif[/img]

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[flash]

i'll see what i can do - not sure we'll have the time though

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[rhudeboye]

If this happens, somebody please tape this.

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[flash]

lol - oh yeah - that's what a i want - incriminating evidence of law breaking

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[ds968]

<!--quoteo(post=75289:date=Jul 10 2009, 10:04 AM:name=flash)-->QUOTE (flash @ Jul 10 2009, 10:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->lol - oh yeah - that's what a i want - incriminating evidence of law breaking<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I always wondered about the countless videos we see on youtoube on street racing, reckless driving, etc
where the morons ( aka, the drivers ) not only film their cars racing before during and after, with the license
plates clearly identifiable, but also have themselves filmed as well.. no helmets of course, so they can be ID'd
with ease [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif[/img]

Pretty easy to defend a post which reads " I raced this car at 160mph on HWY 64 " by asserting it was a
bold lie, but not so easy to convince a court that video of you in your car smoking the tires going past a school
bus unloading kids is really a masterful fake.. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dry.gif[/img]

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[rhudeboye]

Ahhh you guys are being paranoid.

Place the cam inside the car with a side view shot.

I did hear a story of a youtube video where 3 or 4 idiots stopped 4 lanes of traffic to do doughnuts and burn outs in the middle of the highway. Days later the police caught up with them and used the posted videos as incriminating evidence. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif[/img]

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[flash]

i know of a guy with an srx who ended up in jail thanks to his video - there was a brief glance of a reflection that ultimately nailed him

i think i'll pass unless i can find a runway or something

that being said, it would be pretty easy to compare times - i have the stock times in each gear across multiple speed segments (i'll be posting that later) - they we would do the same runs and compare

time availability will likely prohibit it happening on this trip though - we have other more pressing things being done to his car

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[ds968]

<!--quoteo(post=75297:date=Jul 10 2009, 10:56 AM:name=flash)-->QUOTE (flash @ Jul 10 2009, 10:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->time availability will likely prohibit it happening on this trip though - we have other more pressing things being done to his car<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

yes, indeed - but Bob will run a few quick diagnostics just for a sanity check, so if anything unusual stands out we'll know

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[ds968]

My faith has been restored ( almost ). Early moring yesterday I went out hunting for prey on one of our most speed-inviting highways and as luck would have it, as I entered the freeway I pulled up next to another driver who apparently had the same goal in mind [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif[/img] , he was already cruising around 90 mph
at the time . The fact that he was in a car which on paper should convincingly outpace the 968 in a straight flat out run is another story.. So I stepped on it and pulled away, kept it floored to about 130mph, while he tried to catch up but it seemed he did not have a prayer, so puzzled by this I slowed down until we both were side by side at around 80mph, and this time he punched it and got a car length head start.. within seconds I went by him, and continued putting some notable distance between us once again while we were both flat out for what had to be at least a one mile straight run . I'm guessing he was going at least 140, my speedometer was over 150. So I called Flash and told him this made no sense to me whatsoever, but apparently Bob knows of quite a few valid reasons why the results were not necessarily all that surprising, so I just chalked it up to those factors, and moved on..

This morning around 7 am I went out again for a solo run just to test it again. Not looking for any victims this time [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif[/img] , simply wanted to see what this car can do, notwithstanding the less pronounced 4200rpm kick and all that.. Although I'll probably never have an absolute answer if it's faster or slower than before, either way it would be so in either direction by a negligible fraction of a second..

So, radar detector turned on ( although at 7 am on Sunday I've never seen CHP patrol this highway ) I took off off from a stand still at the bottom of a long highway on ramp I spun the tires shifting in second gear, and got a brief squeak shifting into third.. so far, so good. After getting comfortable with the lack of traffic and a segment of the freeway I know so well I can drive it blindfolded, I took off and let the car max out. I've only done this , four, maybe five times in the last six year ( maxing out the speed ) This car flies !! The speedometer reached the 170 line, so I must have realistically hit 160.. and still had a little left I felt, but I did not have big enough cojones to sustain the speed. The noise was unbearable and the car was vibrating way too much for my comfort. But the engine definitely sounds and feels like it breathes a lot better, pulls stronger - at least at the top end - than it even did before. So a fresh head may indeed have given it some extra power all around.

I'm much better now [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif[/img] even though I do miss that mini-turbo sensation to which I had grown accustomed .

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