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Exhaust Recommendations
#21

yes - welcome back
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94 Midnight Metallic Blue Cab Porsche 968 w/deviating cashmere/black interior and WAY too many mods to list - thanks to eric for creating www.968forums.com



"It isn't nearly as expensive to do it right as it is to do it wrong."
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#22

I've just initiated the "ignore" function on 968 Forums and find the site to be tolerable again. It's great.



H2



"You have chosen to ignore all posts from: flash."
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#23

Quote:I've just initiated the "ignore" function on 968 Forums and find the site to be tolerable again. It's great.



H2



"You have chosen to ignore all posts from: flash."





How childish <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/sad.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

Just keep it to yourself. I have no problem with your position, what I do have a problem with is you toting your baggage around like it's a gay pride parade in my living room.
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#24

Amen to that, me too. Bob Blackwell.
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#25

Harvey - That is just unnecessary and childish crap. Leave it on other boards.



Bob welcomes you back and that is the way you reply?
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#26

Great Harvey!



This is the second time that you have launched a hate attack against a sponsor or bona fide member of this forum..and yet, the owner/moderator here has made no attempt to stifle or ban you. Maybe you should take that information back to your friends at the other site.



Stick around, sit back and relax...Feel free to share information or opinions (about your 968 experience) with this group...this is the site that has the resources, friendships, and gatherings that make 968 ownership great...or you could go to any of the other sites and listen to the crickets chirp...



Jay



Maybe try taking your own advice



"You're absolutely right, and on the right track. Stress shouldn't be allowed to exist on any of the lists to the point that it could polarize the members into "us vs. them)...and it doesn't on Rennlist. That's what I like about

Rennlist most. Here one quickly gets banned for offensive behavior (e.g. Lo Miler, Dangerlb, et al on 928 Forum). It really should be open discussion about our great cars and not used as a forum to bully or tear down other product so as to increase one's personal benefits, discuss politics, race, religion, or anything else that might be generally offensive (Off Topic and the For Sale sections tend to be that venue but even those have limits).



Differences of opinion will always exist and can be healthy (Which which oil seems to be best, opinions on which chip performs well, which aftermarket muffler gives the best HP increase, how the 968 car market is doing, how people modify their cars to perform better, what tools help the most, How-tos, etc.) "
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#27

1 - Just a note that I edited my original post to include what I believe to be a quick summary at the top.



2 - This is something that I (kinda) mentioned long ago in recognizing that any forum will get a lot of duplication. I think there are at least three or four really good threads on exhausts here. But try as I might I couldn't find that summary of (1) here are the systems people have tried and (2) their pro's and con's.



It's hard to critique a forum as good as this one (both in content and the folks involved) - but I still wonder if we could ever have that "core" summary area to check before posting - Exhausts, Chips, Wheels, Audio systems, etc...



The concern is that over time any forum can get bogged down with SO much info - and so much good info getting lost. We all know about the search feature...but it can still get kinda tough.



3 - Okay...so it would appear that perhaps there was some history attached to Harvey's note? I am thankfully oblivious - what I will say is that I think Harvey makes a good point in reminding everyone to not take the advice / opinion of any one person...do your research and make your own decision. Maybe that opinion is coming from some issue or something that some people might not agree with...but it still makes sense.



And - if someone wants to ignore the posts of someone else...well...okay - that's cool. Whatever. And who knows - sarcasm is tough in e-mail and forums - maybe the happy face next to the post means he's not as serious as it may seem? Maybe? <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/mellow.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />



4 - I will say along those line that I have not been a heavy poster here - and have a lot more questions than answers. I think that every post I have ever made - no matter how stupid the question was or if it was the 10th time it had been asked - Flash has responded...which is personally something I greatly appreciate and would not want to lose. I won't say he's always been right - lol - but every time his comments...and the comments of a lot of folks here...have made me think about things I had not been (and should have been) considering. Pretty cool...thanks.



5 - And then exhausts...last chance to get in your opinion...I have my list of 6 options (5 after market + 1 OEM). I am thinking that I am now going to setup a poll to see what people have and how much they like it...thoughts?



Thanks again everyone~!



Chris
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#28

very inciteful post



i have always said that people need to listen to not just one source, but rather to gather data and opinion and decide for themselves - it is always a good idea to look beyond somebody's opinions to their motivations - do they have an axe to grind that is coloring their opinion? is there some profit motivation behind what they say? is it just sour grapes? a lot of things are in the background, and it's tough to filter through a lot of it, but taking a step back is always a good idea



the decision on an exhaust system can be a pretty subjective one - there are a lot of factors involved, including but not limited to:



cost

aesthetics

acoustics

performance

fitment



everybody has their own ideas, likes, dislikes, and even pet peeves when it comes to some of this stuff - little things like the tip dramatically affect the sound, so it isn't hard to have widely varying opinions



each system has its own plusses and minuses, and so far, i have not found ANY system that makes me totally happy in all of the above categories - on other threads, i've commented on all of these points on each system out there



currently i am working on a new system, because none of the ones out there do it all for me, so i don't have any particular bias one way or the other, beyond merely passing along my own experiences with some of them, as well as the impressions i have heard from others who have compared them and made choices or changes, or done testing



if only each manufacturer would post charts with before and after tests, we could at least put that one to rest - the aesthetic choices, both in sound and appearance would still be there to make, but that one is a lot easier



there has been incinuation that my opinions are biased toward rs barn, as if to minimize the validity - yes, i have chosen him to be the distributor of some of the things i have come up with - yes, i like a lot of the stuff he has - yes i like him and respect him as a person and a 968 expert, and as a business owner - does that mean that i automatically bias myself toward him over someone else? of course not - we don't even agree on everything, but that doesn't affect what i think about anything - i look at each and every product and situation one by one, make my choices for my own reasons, and go from there - it just happens that pete has been very active in either gathering the parts that work, or coming up with new ones - he has really been the only one to run with the ball - if somebody else was stepping up to the plate, my responses and opinions might be very different (sorry for the mixed metaphors)



for the record, i also have no issue with being ignored - heck, my better half does it all the time
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94 Midnight Metallic Blue Cab Porsche 968 w/deviating cashmere/black interior and WAY too many mods to list - thanks to eric for creating www.968forums.com



"It isn't nearly as expensive to do it right as it is to do it wrong."
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#29

[quote name='flash' post='36853' date='Jun 12 2007, 09:04 AM']very inciteful post[/quote]



I am kinda hoping you meant "insightful" instead?



<img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />
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#30

Simuse-



Thanks for the succinct recap - we may need you to do that for a few other threads <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/wink.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />



I have a stock exhaust and so have nothing to add to your question except to say that in the latest issue of Panorama (and on the PCA website online 'Mart' I assume) is an ad for someone selling a 968 B&B exhaust at a good price.





Good luck
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#31

Another thing to take into consideration in your purchase decision is the nature of the vendor. In RS Barn (with whom I have no affiliation whatsoever), we have a company who dedicates a significant portion of their resources toward the development of high quality mods for the 968. All things being equal (or nearly so), I would support somebody like this over anybody else. Ditto for sponsors of this site (e.g. Paragon).



As far as Harvey goes, if his comment was serious, as opposed to tongue-in-cheek, all I can say is, what a jerk.
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#32

roflmao - my bad - yes - i meant insightful - was a very rushed morning
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94 Midnight Metallic Blue Cab Porsche 968 w/deviating cashmere/black interior and WAY too many mods to list - thanks to eric for creating www.968forums.com



"It isn't nearly as expensive to do it right as it is to do it wrong."
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#33

[quote name='Cloud9...68' post='36886' date='Jun 12 2007, 05:19 PM'].....

As far as Harvey goes, if his comment was serious, as opposed to tongue-in-cheek, all I can say is, what a jerk.[/quote]



Ha, ha. It's interesting how the written word can be interpreted so negatively so easily. Danger of Internet communications I guess. I've had two people that I have great respect for tell me that Flash is a great person in real life. Based on their first hand, face-to-face experience, I'll accept that as being the truth. Hopefully, the same could be said of me...if you ever met me. Patience is not one of my virtues however, although owning several P-cars is testing that. The 968 is "always there" and relatively maintenance free. The 928s...well, one of them is solid and the other takes a lot of time and parts. Thanks for your patience. I'll try (once again) to be patient....or at least keep my thoughts to myself.



Cheers,



Harvey
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#34

THUMBSUP Harvey and once again welcome back.
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#35

[quote name='Mark' post='36920' date='Jun 13 2007, 09:42 AM']THUMBSUP Harvey and once again welcome back.[/quote]



I apologize as I didn't see Flash's responses.



BTW, has anyone done any serious dyno testing of 1) headers, 2) no cats 3) diff. diameter pipes/mufflers to figure out the optimum setup for the 968? An exhaust that's too free flowing can have a negative effect and one that is too restrictive can have a negative effect. Has the "sweet spot" been verified scientifically?



My seat of the pants feeling was that the rear muffler bypass on my 928 added a zillion HP but in reality it was little or none. Sound is one thing but performance is another. It shouldn't be too all that different that the setups on the 944S/951s should it? And those guys have tried about everything.



Again I apologize if this has been posted and I didn't see it.



Harvey
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#36

i know that pete did exactly that in developing his cat-back system and the header - that's how he got to what he did - call him up - i'm sure he'd be happy to discuss the details



yes, the 968 is actually very different from the 944 and 951 when it comes to exhaust - the 944 did not have the dual resonant intake manifold which has proven to be very difficult to engineer around - the 951 is a turbo and completely different when it comes to exhaust - you can and generally do open up a turbo exhaust a lot more than you can a normally aspirated exhaust
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94 Midnight Metallic Blue Cab Porsche 968 w/deviating cashmere/black interior and WAY too many mods to list - thanks to eric for creating www.968forums.com



"It isn't nearly as expensive to do it right as it is to do it wrong."
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#37

In addition to Pete's work, there is post around her from one of the guys who did dyno testing of various cats and the cargraphic but damned if I can find it now.



I spoke with Pete many times during his testing of the various exhausts and chips and he was very thorough. He bought a car just to use a test mule and used that same vehicle for testing all the combos he could. His dyno guy is also extremely well respected in the east coast Porsche community (including a couple of 968 guys who are on other forums <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> ) so I was not worried about the person running the dynos.



Mark
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#38

[quote name='RPM' post='36856' date='Jun 12 2007, 01:11 PM']Simuse-



Thanks for the succinct recap - we may need you to do that for a few other threads <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/wink.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />



I have a stock exhaust and so have nothing to add to your question except to say that in the latest issue of Panorama (and on the PCA website online 'Mart' I assume) is an ad for someone selling a 968 B&B exhaust at a good price.





Good luck[/quote]











I bought it about a month ago before it was in the mart on PCA. He had it listed on craigslist. My old B&B was shot. PO installed it back in '97 or so.



I was going to get a new RSB, but I could not pass up on the price.



Turned out to only have 900 miles on it. I put a quick polish on it and it looks brand new.







He sent it with orignal packaging.







The B&B I just picked up was different than my old one. The muffler is longer, the tip is different (round as opposed to oval) and has a resonator. I did not know B&B had 2 different systems for the 968. Maybe there was a revision along the way or one was more track oriented. The new system I got is much quieter than the old one.







My old exhaust had cracks in it and was leaking bad. I think had lost a lot of back pressure. When Iput the new exhaust on I felt some power on the top side which I thought I was missing.







Like Flash said I chose the B&B over the RSB because of aesthetics. I does look nice.







I will try and take some pictures of the old unit so people can see the difference.
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#39

[quote name='Cloud9...68' post='36886' date='Jun 12 2007, 08:19 PM']RS Barn (with whom I have no affiliation whatsoever), we have a company who dedicates a significant portion of their resources toward the development of high quality mods for the 968. All things being equal (or nearly so), I would support somebody like this over anybody else.[/quote]









I could not agree more.
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#40

[quote name='smokiemon968' post='36975' date='Jun 14 2007, 06:03 AM']The B&B I just picked up was different than my old one. The muffler is longer, the tip is different (round as opposed to oval) and has a resonator. I did not know B&B had 2 different systems for the 968. Maybe there was a revision along the way or one was more track oriented. The new system I got is much quieter than the old one.

I will try and take some pictures of the old unit so people can see the difference.[/quote]





Yup, different than my BB which has a shorter muffler, oval tip and no resonator so clearly they made two different ones, but I only see one option available now ( Performance Products catalog )



As for performance testing - after installing the BB I had the car on a dyno but did not do a before and after

test ( with stock first and then with the BB - simplty tested the BB ) so I cannot compare the changes.. if any. All I can tell you is that looking at the hp and torque curves, both lines looked to have a consistent

and parallel image with the stock 968 chart. So from what I can assess there is no loss of torque whasoever at any rpm point, but I can't tell if there are any gains because not sure if 100% of that, 90%. 80% of the gains are attributable to the chip.



FYI - at the rear wheels max hp was 213.23 and max torque was 202. BTW, this was before the air box modification.



What is dissapointing though is the power lines dropping like a rock after 6600 rpm, so no gains up to

7100 rpm which the racer X chip has shown to do in other 968s .. but that's a different topic which belongs on the chip threads I guess..
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