[edm]

Here is my situation. Had a Major tune up done ( belts, rollers, engine mounts, fluids ). Now when I start the car up there seems to be an engine vibration almost like sitting on a massage chair. Any input would be greatly appreciated. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/sad.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[Mark]

Balance shaft in 180 degrees off!!!!

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[Stephenwz968]

I'd bet your balance shaft belt is off a few teeth, or the balance shaft pullies are 180 degrees out.



Steve

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[spectre996]

The belts usually need to be retensioned after being driven for awhile. If I remember correctly, Porsche recommends the be adjusted after 1000 miles. I just had a major service done as well (45k with belts, rollers, etc) and mine acted similar to what you describe until my belts were retensioned. I had a lot more vibration in the upper RPM range that was especially noticable through the gearshift lever and through the gas pedal. After that was done, the vibration was gone and the car ran SO much smoother.

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[edm]

Thanks to all that replied, I will have my mechanic look into it.

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[Vedder]

This is exactly whats happening with my car, All belts are new the engine mounts are OEM new, and i checked the belts several times, i even re did the belts at a stage, and still have a vibration coming thru the gear shift, i checked the Shift Linkage, even the clearance of the exshaust to the Torque tube, and still have the vibration, it more aparent at idle, clutch in or out makes no difference. The engine runs clean and good compression numbers are well within spec, any ideias? Sorry if im jacking you're Topic.

Here are som pics of the belts any input is welcomed.



        [attachment=4974:attachm

ent]

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[flash]

ron had this happen to him - i actually went in there myself and looked at - it took 3 TIMES to see that one of the balance shaft pulleys was off 180 degrees - it is not obvious - the marks all lined up, but the pulley underneath was off - the pulleys are identical, but do not go in the same way

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[edm]

I forgot to tell everyone my car is a tip and it only happens at idle.

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[flash]

hmmm - well, tips are notorious for vibrating more than manuals - got one here that does the same thing, and i KNOW it's right



did this vibration come about immediately after the belt job?



i am still inclined to think that the pulley is wrong, and believe me the shop that did ron's did not want to believe it either, but it did indeed turn out to be the case



there are a couple of things that could also create vibrations, but they should have been evident to some degree before the belt job



there is a spec on the manual motor mounts to determine if they are bad or not - not sure about the tip spec - the manual ones start at 70mm gap, and are to be replaced at 63mm gap



the flex damper could be getting hard or cracking - this can cause vibration

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[kwikt]

[quote name='flash' post='45437' date='Jan 9 2008, 06:53 AM']ron had this happen to him - i actually went in there myself and looked at - it took 3 TIMES to see that one of the balance shaft pulleys was off 180 degrees - it is not obvious - the marks all lined up, but the pulley underneath was off - the pulleys are identical, but do not go in the same way[/quote]





Flash... what do you mean that the marks line up but were a 180 off.



Kevin

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[doster]

another thing you might check is the alternator bolts, mine were loose and It caused a vibration like you described. And I don't have anyoue to blame but myself.

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[Vedder]

[quote name='doster' post='45491' date='Jan 10 2008, 04:05 AM']another thing you might check is the alternator bolts, mine were loose and It caused a vibration like you described. And I don't have anyoue to blame but myself.[/quote]



Ive checked them and their good.



More tips guys?

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[flash]

the pulley sits behind a little plate - as an example, in the pic above, the mark is on the plate, not on the pulley - this is what happened on ron's car - there are 2 keyways on the pulley, and the pulley itself was on the wrong one on one of them - the plate, which can go on over either one, was then put over the top



in addition to checking the alternator bolts, check the mounting ear of it and the ac compressor - one of the common failures is that the ears break due to incorrect accessory belt tensioning method (correct is loosen bolts - adjust tension - tighten bolts) - frequently people either adjust the accessory belts with the bolts tight, or forget to tighten them afterward - the result is broken accessories

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[Chris Vais]

The shop I go to got the balance shaft pullys on 180 degrees out. when I toof the car back to them they were convinced that something else was wrong, but in the end it was the pullys. It still remains a mystery to me that no one would have noticed the vibration if they test drove the car after the service was completed. I has only happened the one time.

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[Vedder]

[quote name='flash' post='45496' date='Jan 10 2008, 01:55 PM']the pulley sits behind a little plate - as an example, in the pic above, the mark is on the plate, not on the pulley - this is what happened on ron's car - there are 2 keyways on the pulley, and the pulley itself was on the wrong one on one of them - the plate, which can go on over either one, was then put over the top[/quote]



Actually if you look closer at the photo form the lower pulley youll see that there is awhite dot painted as well on the pulley itself. so it does mean that the pulley is right? right also the O and the U show up on the right places.



Even so i think i have a theory, here it goes, is it possible that when i dropped the Crossmember and the engine was supported by the a Bar with chains from the top, and since the front of the car was on ramps that the engine slided back toward sthe transmission, and it not lined up right? does it make sense? Could this explain another strange fact that happens with the engine mount on the drivers side, if i put the new engine mount that i have on it the car will shake like hell, like something is hitting the body, but if i put the used mount( not failed just used) the car behaves like explain above, alot of vibration on the Shifter.



i hope this help you guys diagnose this prob.

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[flash]

i'd pull that plate off and see what the pulley position is underneath - if those pulleys got switched, it could now be wrong - this is what happened to ron's car - looked right, until we actually pulled the plate off to see the pulley underneath - as i said, it took us taking it apart 3 times to finally see it, and the shop still couldn't believe it, and just threw their hands in the air



also, it looks like you are almost a tooth off, but hard to tell, because neither the cam pulley, nor the upper shaft pulley line up correctly - every one i have seen, only one pulley is off the notch, not two



i had shots of what this looked like wrong and right, but now can't find them



as for the "sliding" theory, it's highly unlikely, since there is a big steel tube that says "thou shall go no farther"



measure your motor mounts

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[Cloud9...68]

If it were an issue with the balance shaft belt alignment, wouldn't the vibration get worse at higher rpm, as opposed to being mainly a problem at idle, as edm describes? My balance belt stripped a bunch of teeth a little over a year ago, and as a result was WAY off, but the roughness was berely noticeable at idle. But as soon as I revved it, it became very rough. It sounds more like engine mounts, but these were replaced as well...

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[flash]

oddly no - that's what i would have thought too - on ron's car, we automatically assumed that idle vibration = motor mounts - we changed the mounts - yes, they were near minimum spec, but they hadn't gotten there yet - not the problem



then we tore the cover off and looked at the balance shafts - marks all lined up - paint in the right spots - looks fine - still vibrated -



then we looked at the DMF - not the problem



then pulled the belt cover again - still looked fine



then finally a third time, and this time i made them pull the plates off of the pulleys - BINGO

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[Vedder]

[quote name='flash' post='45534' date='Jan 11 2008, 01:25 AM']then finally a third time, and this time i made them pull the plates off of the pulleys - BINGO[/quote]



Sorry for the dumb question, but how will i know if the balace shaft is in position after takin the plate and pulley out? i notice that the BS will rotate by themselfs when the belt is not on, do they rotate for the right position without the pulley?

What should i be looking for after removing the plate?

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[flash]

you can leave the pulley in place, but just remove the retainer plate - as i remember, the keyways should not be both at 12 o'clock, but the top one at about 12 and the bottom more like at 6:30 - with the belt off, they do rotate on their own, and swing out of position, due to the weights



i'll let somebody else ring in on this, as i just can't remember that well, and always have to go back and check

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