[968cabx2]

This started in a different topic but I moved it here at the request of flash. Always interested I his insight into things because he has forgotten more that I most likely will ever know about these cars so here goes:



I was running a FR Wilk power prom in my 968 tip. It had ok performance gains over the factory setup and I was getting about 22-23 miles per gallon. I record every fill up so I know my mpg almost exactly for each tank. I then switched to an RS Barn stage 1 chip and felt a marked performance improvement over the FR Wilk chip and am now getting 25 to 27 mpg. Needless to say I was pretty impressed. This is why I was a bit shocked when you said that the RSB chips run rich. Last thing I want to do is intentionally destroy my cat by running rich. I know you were working on a chip for the tips which I am eagerly dying to try, but in the mean time can you elaborate a little on what you know about the RSB stage 1 chip and it's characteristics. Do you know that the chip disables the O2 sensor, and if so do you know if the Wilk one does so. Just would like to hear a bit more about the damage we might be unknowingly doing. Thanks

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[flash]

first, let's try not to lump all chips from a given vendor into one pile. most vendors makes more than one, for various applications.



i did not say that all RSB chips run rich. he makes a few different ones. not all of them run rich. he does tend to like to play with fuel more than timing, but that does not mean that it runs rich. that being said, he does make one that is very rich. so, you have to specify which chip you are dealing with.



as for the explanation to your fuel economy issue, i tend to think there is likely something else at play here. was it a chip swap, and only a chip swap? were there no other factors involved (i.e. spark plugs, time of year, type of driving, tendency to step on it for fun, etc)?



that being said, i haven't looked at the FRWilk maps, but the other chips that are out there don't disable the O2 sensor. however, one of the RSB chips is designed to work with the coding plug that does disable the O2 sensor. if you want to send me the FRWilk chip, i can tell you if the O2 is disabled. Floyd is an odd duck. i wouldn't be surprised if he did it. i should also be able to tell you if there are other things causing the mileage drop.

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[968cabx2]

The RSB chip I have is a stage 1.

As for the chip, I can do you one better and send you the bin files for either or both chips if you want them.

As for the fuel,economy issue, it was a chip swap and only a chip swap, nothing else at all. (Unless you think that the keyless entry I installed had an effect on the fuel economy. ) <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.png" class="smilie" alt="" />



Let me know what you think and again, thanks your insight is always appreciated.

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[flash]

unless you use the same software i use to read the data, you won't get all the files from floyd, in any format that would be legible. he knows how to hide things. i know what i'm looking for, because i know how he writes code. better to just send me the chip, and then i can send it back.



i already have everything on the RSB stage 1 and 2 chips.



lol - no, i don't think that the keyless entry had any effect.

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[Ernie]

So Flash, is the RSB Stage 1 chip ok, as far as the not running to rich? A lot of us are probably going to stay with that chip until you have the other chip/mod package ready to go. Thanks

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[flash]

i see no dangers with that chip.

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[968cabx2]

flash,

Just to clarify, I have the dump of the actual eprom in hex format so I can't imagine that anthing can hide in there. If that is workable I can email it to you, if not I dont have a problem sending you the chip.

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[flash]

i can try it, if you have it in a bin file format. not sure i can import the file in hex format, and get all of the things that floyd does to show up. i have one of his other files though, and i'll play with that and see.



sales@design1racing.com

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[968cabx2]

ROM dumps sent. I hope they are useful.

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[968cabx2]

flash,



Just wondering if you were able to get anything out of the rom dumps for the Wilk chip?



I'm averaging close to 27mpg with the RSB stage one after replacing the Wilk chip which was averaging about 22.5.



Was hoping you might have some insight into why. Also dying to try your tip chip when it's ready for prime time as it looks like it might be the perfect compromise between the 2 chips I have now.



Thanks

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[flash]

not yet - been working on setting up another supercharged car, and now the blue car. hoping to wrap it up in an hour or so, and be able to look at those. thanks for reminding me though. i need to pull them from the email and see if i can read them.

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[speedysprocket]

So after reading your chip shoot out article, I'm wondering what's different between the early and late 968 DMEs. Is that something you've figured out yet? Is one better than the other? Does a chip meant for a later one work in the early one?

Thanks!

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[flash]

other than the very first ECU, later chips work in early ECUs, but not the other way around. still not sure about the first one, as there are only 29 of them.



no difference has been found in performance between the ECUs

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[parptarf]

How about a professional ECU tune? I'm thinking about getting a pro to re flash the entire thing. He has a dyno and promises great things. He's also well know and his work is well documented. I think he said 25hp and 35nm. on top of my existing mods. (2.5" cat-back exhaust and air box mod)

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[flash]

they all promise great things. however, i have not run into any of them willing to actually tune all of the maps. the 968 ECU has 142 maps. at least 20 of those need to be changed for a good tune. most of them only want to tune the WOT maps. that doesn't get anywhere near what is really needed.



if he thinks he can get 25hp out of a chip, he's nuts, and no chance of getting anywhere near 25 lb/ft. the best we have seen yet is 15 hp, with most of them falling in between 10 and 15. the best torque gain has been about 10. i'd get that in writing, and not pay him unless he can do it, or at least get close. i think i can find a little more than what is currently out there, but not 25hp over an exhaust and airbox mod.



you will get the best performance out of a professional tune, as it will be tuned to your individual setup and condition, however, it will take many hours on the dyno, and many more on the street, to get it right. you can expect that to cost a pretty penny.

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[parptarf]

He is really thorough. According to other people who has had him re-flash their ECU it takes a really long time and usually he keeps his promises.

But if he goes through all the maps, he might get close to 25hp extra? Besides, what does an exhaust and air box mod give? And extra 20?

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[flash]

first off, this is not OBD2, it's OBD1, so there is no "reflash". you have to burn a new chip.



no, you will not get close to 25hp with a new chip. you may get 17 or so, if he really knows what he's doing, you are running on high octane fuel, and are willing to run on the ragged edge.



the airbox mod by itself is about 11hp. the exhaust by itself does little to nothing. this engine does not respond well to traditional exhaust modifications.



the big thing to remember is that you can't start stacking up numbers. it doesn't work like that. you get diminishing returns with each additional mod.



that being said, between all of a decent cat-back, the airbox mod, and a well tuned chip, you should see about 25hp and maybe 10 lb/ft total gain.

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[parptarf]

Sounds logical enough. Still though, a total of 265hp is a good deal of power in a N/A 968.



There's a lot of other "myths" on how to tune a 968, but I'll just make a thread dedicated to that instead of capturing this one.

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[flash]

lol - indeed. over the last 11 years i've seen a LOT of that. not many who have actually gotten close to figuring it out though.

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[speedysprocket]

So the DME that came with my engine had a ProMax 7100 chip in it. Any feedback on it? I just replaced it with the factory chip to see if I can break out of the 22mpg rut I'm stuck in... Could that chip had been my cause of bad mileage?

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