[Cloud9...68]

This sounds an awful lot like what my car used to do, back in the dark ages when it actually ran. It would start fine first thing in the morning, but then after driving it, if I turned off the engine, and then tried starting it again fairly soon (approximately the amount of time it would take to buy gas, although I never correlated the behavior to buying gas), it would take a lot of effort to get it to start. I had to to a dance of turning the key, releasing it at just the right instant, and then stabbing the gas pedal before it died. Sometime it took several attempts at this to get it to start. It seemed to be worse on hot days. I never did figure out the problem, and it actually seemed to get better on its own before I decided to tear my car apart and turn it into a track car.



As somebody said, you really need to try to establish whether or not there is a connection between the problem and buying gas, by driving it for awhile, stopping and turning it off for about the amount of time it takes to buy gas, and then trying to start it again. I can't think of any reason why the act of filling up the tank would impact the ability of the car to start.

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[Grandpa#3]

What type of fuel are you using? Do not put fuel with "ETHANOL" in your car. Our cars do not like that junk, it was ten percent and now it is going to fifteen percent. To me your car sounds like a Fuel Pressure Regulator is going bad. Pull the Vacuum Hose off to see if any fuel drips out.



Cheers,

Larry

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[spin]

these cars want premium right?

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[flash]

not want, NEED

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[spin]

Started the car a couple of times today and it was fine. Very weird issue. I will test it again tomorrow.

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[Rob in Oz]

I had a similar problem with my Audi S4 - trying to restart from hot involved a lot of starter motor churning, followed by a reluctant firing and eventual start. It eventually transpired that the temperature sensor that tells the ECU whether or not to enrich the fuel mixture for a cold start, was malfunctioning, so the engine was overfueling from a hot start. Replaced the temp sensor and all was good. Might be worth a try...



Regards



Rob

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[rl968]

[quote name='Grandpa#3' timestamp='1355021750' post='135993']

What type of fuel are you using? Do not put fuel with "ETHANOL" in your car. Our cars do not like that junk, it was ten percent and now it is going to fifteen percent. To me your car sounds like a Fuel Pressure Regulator is going bad. Pull the Vacuum Hose off to see if any fuel drips out.



Cheers,

Larry

[/quote]



Don't want to pull this OT, but highly doubt his car is not starting properly because of fuel mixed with 10% ethanol. Very few cars are going to have problems with this, other than crappy gas mileage. I run my 86 911 on 10% with no issues and the 968 runs and starts just fine too.



Given that the car seems to mosly have issues when it is hot, the problem here is most likely the starter, particularly if it is the original one. I had the exact same issue, car would not start well after it was driven a while and had to let it cool, would also stumble when cold once in while.



To OP, what does it sound like when you are starting the car? Does it sound like the starter is tryng to engage, but won't turn the engine over? Does it do this when you drive other places, stop the car and then try to start it. Im afraid you haven't given us enough info, and everyone, including me, is just kind of speculating trying to hlp you.

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[DaveN]

How about getting into the 21st Century guys! <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/tongue.png" class="smilie" alt="" /> Get Spin to put her cell phone into recording mode and start a session, record the starting event (or lack thereof) and post it here? We can listen and decide if it has anything to do with physical items like the starter not engaging? That's one nasty spin/grind that's easy to hear.

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[spin]

basically it sounds normal, like it's going to start but it doesn't start, it's turning over but nothing happens. on occasion the car will start but really in a sluggish way, like really slow.

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[DaveN]

Great, we can all toss any starter problems. I would guess heat induced failure of the DME relay and then the fuel check valve or leaky regulator? Some one here had some leakage back into a vacuum line that caused issues similar I believe.

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[Grandpa#3]

I hate to hark back to the Fuel Pressure Regulator, but the systems happening are very similar. A failing FPR can cause not maintaining fuel pressure to the fuel rail for the next start. The Temperature Sensor can also cause this problem as stated above in post #26. Check reference below. On information given we all are at best giving a WAG.



http://www.clarks-garage.com/shop-manual/fuel-07.htm



Cheers,

Larry

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[RS Barn]

I'm pretty sure Spin has a later relay. But they all can fail after many electrical and heat cycles. The relay controls both ignition and fuel and can be finicky when hot. What possibly strikes me as a problem is fuel pressure control valve. If system pressure drops when engine is shut off there may be a delay in starting while trying to build correct pressure.

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[Cloud9...68]

Pete,



The thing that confuses me about the check valve theory is that I would think starting would become more difficult with a faulty valve if the car sat for a long period, which would allow more opportunity for the fuel to de-pressurize. But of course, you're the expert - just trying to understand this better (by the way, I ordered a new one for my car just as a precaution - it was only 16 bucks). Thanks.

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[flash]

cloud - you are correct, IF it's a complete fail of the valve. if it's just "sticking" intermittently, it could stick open or closed.



the key is going to be in determining if the problem is random, heat related, fuel quantity related, or what

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[Cloud9...68]

Yes, I could see how an intermittently sticking valve could cause starting problems. But the thing that puzzles me is that in my case, as well as that of numerous other peoples' over the years, including the OP's, there seems to be a clear pattern in that the problem really only rears its head after the car has run for awhile, is shut off for a few minutes, and then a re-start is attempted. If it were an intermittently sticking valve, I would think it would sometimes cause starting problems after the car was sitting for long periods of time. Not really disagreeing with you, or any of the other who have proposed theories for this stubborn problem, just trying to clarify and understand. And I completely agree that we need more info as to the pattern specific to the OP's problem. Thanks.

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[flash]

mine was a weirdo. it only did it every once in a while. was really hard to diagnose. once i changed it, it has not done it since.



of course, now i have gummy starter syndrome instead.

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[spin]

started it today and yesterday and no problem. i hate intermittent issues. I will let you guys know when it happens again and what the situation was.

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[Cloud9...68]

Just to rule out anything obvious, I would recommend doing a blink test. This will tell you whether all your car's sensors are healthy, and the beauty of it is that it's free. A search will reveal how to do it, and how to interpret the results.

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[Ryan]

Just for kicks...the next time this happens try pushing the gas pedal down half way when cranking and see if this helps. I have had a few times when my car didn't fire up and this has worked.

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