[Anchorman]

My son and I are looking to purchase a car for DE use. Based on recent incidents at WGI (particularly my son's and Gary's), we've decided that we're not going to start with an overpowered car, and we want something that'll protect us. I might also add that we're not looking to get into a construction project.

What do those of you with experienced eyes think of this? Please be brutally candid. In advance, thanks.

http://www.race-cars.com/carsales/bmw/1228...228100502ss.htm

Other suggestions - including where we might find alternative ready-to-run cars - are also invited.

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[benspeeder]

Hi -

That M3 will be fast as hell - a very quick car for a starter. Easily a 150 mph car. It also has a Kirk cage - not what you really want if you seek the best in safety. Really should go with a custom welded in cage.

Check out www.improvedtouring.com. That site will have many quality SCCA built race cars that are inexpensive and reliable. That site is where I spend my time if I'm not here.

A Mazda RX7 second gen or ITS car is a fantastic, fast but not overpowered car. Very reliable - I raced three different cars all with great success. Cheap to run but parts are now getting harder to find.

You can't go wrong with a Miata. Cheap, fantastic handler, not hi-powered and tons of classes to race in. Most widely raced car in the country. Very safe - seen some massive hits on those cars and they are stout.

BMW - more expensive but if you have the budget - can't go wrong. Buy the E36 chassis or later. The E30 is raced in NASA but is not as good as the E36.

For a starter - Miata would be my pick. Especially if my son was to start racing - I'd put him in one of those. He'll have tons of guys wheel to wheel with him wherever he is in the field. Can't get that tight quarters experience in many classes.

Let us know what you pick!

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[pmcrespo]

e36 M3 platforms will have very similar power to weight ratios as the 968. In fact, you can in most cases get to a higher power to weight ratio easier, cheaper, and faster than with a 968. They both handle very well. Nonetheless, the 968 will (all other things equal/equivalent) will out-handle an e36 M3.

I also do not love that Kirk cage and don’t even know if it would pass race tech (wall thickness, DOM, etc). You would have to ask the owner.

I have been looking at the same comparison of platforms for my next race car. And as much as I would like to go with a cheaper to maintain/upgrade/race e36 M3, I know that power to weight being equal, the 968 will win every day, it will be a more balanced car, and by experience, they are strongly built cars.

Gary's roof collapse was mainly due to cage design and impact type (fairy rare). My next cage will have some welded gussets and diagonals reinforcing that side.

I agree with Ben on cheaper alternatives. But if you want to stay P car and love their balance, get an NA 944 with a strong custom cage and RS Barn's suspension package. But only after you budget and buy the best helmet you can afford and the Head and Neck Restraint System of choice.

Also please remember, DEs barely ever see the kinds of incidents you are pointing out. Racing is the complete opposite of DEs. Driving 10/10th and more every lap of every race, with 25 others doing the same, with many different classes in play, is going to yield an exponentially higher number of serious incidents.

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[PorscheDude]

I would go for a 944 that has been prepped and sorted.
There are lots of them out there a fairly cheap to run.

Check PCA, rennlist and pelican classifieds.

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[garylimey]

<!--quoteo(post=73117:date=Jun 3 2009, 08:53 AM:name=Anchorman)-->QUOTE (Anchorman @ Jun 3 2009, 08:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->My son and I are looking to purchase a car for DE use. Based on recent incidents at WGI (particularly my son's and Gary's), we've decided that we're not going to start with an overpowered car, and we want something that'll protect us. I might also add that we're not looking to get into a construction project.

What do those of you with experienced eyes think of this? Please be brutally candid. In advance, thanks.

http://www.race-cars.com/carsales/bmw/1228...228100502ss.htm

Other suggestions - including where we might find alternative ready-to-run cars - are also invited.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Hey Jim,

Try this site, this is the Cup cars for sale section of NSAS 944Cup the people I race with.
There is a national championship car for sale for $18,000.
Once your get on the site contact Dave Derecola, he's the national series director and a great guy. He knows all the race prepped 944's within the class that are for sale

http://44cup.zeroforum.com/zeroforum?id=25

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[flash]

given the right foot requirements of the son, i think a 944 is out

but, what about a 951?

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[xrad]

as a starter car 944 or 951 a good buy:

http://www.race-cars.com/carsales/porsche/...117421700ss.htm

and i think it's beating a bimmer....

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[Anchorman]

Lots of good stuff - THANKS. I'm going to sit in a Miata this afternoon and see if I fit. During my last DE, I had a lot of fun chasing a Miata that had passed me, after which I said "I'm worthless if I, in my 968, can't keep up with a Miata." Well, I chased him tightly for about 1.5 laps, then the session was ended prematurely.

In the meantime, though, here's one we found. http://www.flyinmiata.com/us/for_sale.asp

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[xrad]

I always feel safer with a hard top.....

Plenty of nice turbo conversion for Miata , too...

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[flash]

interesting - i always feel safer in a convertible - i'm a bit claustrophobic after flipping a hardtop car at 130mph - all that glass and sheet metal makes me nervous, and really messed me up - never had that problem when i flipped the ragtop or rolled the sandrail

my race car will definitely be a speedster - not even a real windshield

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[Anchorman]

After some further thought, I've put on the table making my 968 into a serious track car. So much has been done to it already, and it's clearly a known quantity, so...

The only steps I'd take with it would be the RSBarn header/exhaust, and possibly springs and sways.

Don't know which way we'll go yet.

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[Cloud9...68]

The owner of the local driving academy recommended a Honda S2000 as the ideal dedicated track car. Very affordable, phenomenal handling, sufficient power, super reliability.

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[Anchorman]

When I was looking for my 968 six years ago, I thought about the S2000. So I went to a Honda dealership, walked in, strode over to the S2000 that was sitting on the showroom floor, and got into it. I quickly concluded that I didn't fit, so I got up, and walked out - never greeted or noticed by any salesperson.

So - while I understand it's a great car, it's not a car for me (and that's not considering how much I haven't slimmed down in the intervening six years).

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[xrad]

Fear of paddles and claustrophobia....what has become of our leader.... [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.gif[/img]

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[ds968]

<!--quoteo(post=73149:date=Jun 3 2009, 02:47 PM:name=flash)-->QUOTE (flash @ Jun 3 2009, 02:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->interesting - i always feel safer in a convertible - i'm a bit claustrophobic after flipping a hardtop car at 130mph - all that glass and sheet metal makes me nervous, and really messed me up - never had that problem when i flipped the ragtop or rolled the sandrail
my race car will definitely be a speedster - not even a real windshield<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


that's because you have a heck of a roll bar in yours, otherwise those convertibles " convert " into pretty nifty guillotines if you happen to flip them over.. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dry.gif[/img]

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[flash]

roflmao - i still have the training wheels on my computer too - i'm afraid of change - you should see what this site looks like in DOS

seriously though - for a first dedicated track car, i would keep things as simple as possible - low tech - less complicated than modern cars to work on - spend the time on driving and not on tweaking - to that point, i would consider cars that have a large following of low income owners and a variety of resources for parts and such

that's why i suggested a 951 - you can get one for next to nothing - then you add what you want as you go, with a decent support you already know - it also has the ability to have the power to weight ratio that your son needs, while still providing a car that is not all that different from what you already know and love

then, when he outgrows it (or you do) you can sell it fairly easily

a spec miata is not a bad choice either, but i think the power issue will come into play very early - i would personally prefer that car over the 951, but then what i like is super light and nimble - power is less of an issue to me - i was very competitive in the underpowered MGB against cars with a LOT more power

on that note, you could pick up an elva - easily 140hp and about 1200 lbs - i know a 70 year old guy who is over 6' and about 200lbs that drives one VERY fast

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[Cloud9...68]

Lots of good suggestions. Let me throw out one more - an early 90's Toyota MR2, preferably (but not necessarily) a turbo. I drove one once, and found it to have very good ergonomics. And again, affordable, great handling, lots of upgrade potential, and very reliable.

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[firefish]

I don't know how it works in the US but in Sweden the Miata is very popular. Stone axe reliable, good performance (especially relative to the cost) and lots of competition.

Another car to consider might be a Seven, depending on how the classes work in the US (no fun to race without competition). At least in Europe you can get a decent replica for the same money that'll get you a nice, but stock, 968. And all the 7 will need is a set of r tires and it's bye-bye-baby to most 968's. And the 7 is cheap to maintain as it doesn't require any tricky parts to handle well (save for perhaps tires and shocks) - the key is in the low weight.

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[Anchorman]

Thanks, everyone, for the continuing discussion and ideas. This is being quite helpful.

We've decided that converting my 968 to a dedicated track car doesn't really serve our purpose, as we need to have two cars since there will be events where we'll be in the same run group. The idea of lighter car is striking a positive chord with both of us, so we're wanting to look more intently at already-prepped Miatas and the like. A Seven is an interesting thought, but I'm thinking that parts and maintenance could be quite a challenge on this side of the pond.

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[banditsc]

Safer in a convertible??

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