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Big Reds
#1

Hi there,



Can any body sagest a better front brake set up in a kit form that will out performe big reds with black Pagid pads.



Zoran Letunica
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#2

<img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/laugh.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> Had to do it...
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#3

Zoran - Can I ask what the applications is? For someone to need MORE than Big Reds with Pagid Blacks = More front brake than I've seen even dedicated racers needing.



The quesiton is quite specific, that's why I ask.
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#4

For a race application (car weighing around 2500 lbs or less) I can't Imagine needing more than big reds. I can't imagine a 968 with enough tire to need more than reds. My 86 carrera race car has 275 front and 315 rears. I have big reds on the front and the stock fronts (86 turbo brakes) on the rear and i run pagid blacks. The car weighs 2500lbs (for now) and the brakes have more than enough stopping power.
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#5

[quote name='Josho' date='Oct 7 2005, 02:21 PM']<img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/laugh.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> Had to do it...

[right][post="10861"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]



Ha! <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/tongue.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> This has been in my subconscious for quite some time now. Great picture! <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/laugh.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />
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#6

[quote name='Dave' date='Oct 7 2005, 12:01 PM']Zoran - Can I ask what the applications is?  For someone to need MORE than Big Reds with Pagid Blacks = More front brake than I've seen even dedicated racers needing.



The quesiton is quite specific, that's why I ask.

[right][post="10868"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]





Dave, Kramermic,



I have a road registered/race car. That is what I call it anyway. It is 30% driven on public roads and 70% on rice track. It still has full interior and it is fitted with full roll cage and harness. It weights around 1320 kg. I purchased the car as original 968 club sport as I thougt that was the closest thing to a full race car, but still road driveble. GT 3s were way to expensive at the time and who needs one anyway, I blow their doors at the track every time.



This is how all started:

1) upgrade to lighter flywheel and clutch(modified 95 mod. 911 rs cs)

2) simons 3 pieces wheals 10inch at the front with 265/35 18 tires and 12 inch at the rear with 295/30/18 tires

3) fully adj. front & rear suspensions

4) turbo motor... 500+ hp (332kw at rear wheals)

5) and finally big reds(twin turbo) at the front with standard rears Mo30 cross drilled with fearly aggressive rice pads



I felt that I should described the car so you can tray to understand way I want to change my brakes set up.



In beginning of all of this about 4 years ago I never wanted more braking performance out of this car, but as I was learning how to take full advantage of power and as I become better driver (I think) I actually started to straggle with stopping it in time.



Here is the example:

If I was to say replace my rotors to new ones (322mm cross drilled from porsche) and put new set of Pagit pads, I will be fine for about 4 to 5 club events/days.At this stage I will experience very impressive stopping power and occasional ABS activations. as the rotors start cracking up (4-5mm) all around and thinning up, and as brake pads loose thickness(of course unevenly) I start to loose performance in braking.



Here is example twoTonguehillip Islland rice track turn 4 hair pin down to 80 km/hr

As approaching turn 4 I get to speeds of about 240km/hr and I will go hard on brakes at approximately 150 to 160 meters depending on the day and grip level I have available. After 3 to 4 laps rotors will heat up and my pedal will extend almost to the floor(I really mean thiss) it is not the greatest feeling when you are travelling at 240 km per hr and approaching 130 degree turn. I struggle to make the turn and go as deep in to the corner as I can hoping I will wash another few km of the speed before I turn in. I have learnt how to brake trail very quickly, thanks to my brakes problem. I am not saying they are not stopping me, they do but just.



To summerise all this for you:

Big power, heavy car(not in rice trim yet), and Big Reds are just perfect for first 40 % of rotors and brake pads life, after that they become throw away item unless you are prepared to loose few seconds of your lap times.



It will be very interesting if any body has a solution/fix to this problem.



Safe driving every one,



Zoran Letunica
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#7

Zoran - Okay, that makes sense. It's pretty rare that I hear from someone saying "big reds are not enough" in a 968. Given the horsepower and use, I can see why you are stretching their capacity at race tracks.



You are beyond my limits of knowledge in this area. I would recommend speaking directly with one of the brake specialists such as:



www.stoptech.com

www.performancefriction.com



They will have more skilled constructive ideas perhaps.



The other option is to plan to replace front rotors and pads at 4-5 days/events. Actually, that's a LOT of mileage for your application, at least in my book.



Sorry I can't be of more help on this one. Perhaps someone else can chime in?



By the way, beautiful car. Makes us 240 hp guys jealous.
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#8

Zoran,



I think there are larger rotors than the Big Reds...I've seen some monster rotors at my mechanic's place. They make my Big Red brakes look tiny. I don't know what they are. But, they were on a Cup car that is running in GT1R group over here.



Jason
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#9

Hi Dave,



Thanks for your replay and trade names your mentioned.

You are correct about mileage I do with this rotors & pads. I may be asking a bit to much from this set up.



Zoran Letunica
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#10

[quote name='Jason Judd' date='Oct 11 2005, 06:57 AM']Zoran,



I think there are larger rotors than the Big Reds...I've seen some monster rotors at my mechanic's place. They make my Big Red brakes look tiny.  I don't know what they are. But, they were on a Cup car that is running in GT1R group over here.



Jason

[right][post="11046"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]



Jason,



I don't think you can put any bigger rotor(disc size) with our big reds callipers. The biggest is 322mm rotor and that is what I have all ready. Could you please tell me if you think I am wrong on this.



I think that caliper size is powerful but rotor size is not big enough to cope with all that extra heat.



Zoran Letunica
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#11

Zoran,



They were not Big Red calipers...sorry I didn't make that clear.



Jason
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#12

Zoran,



What kind of additional air ducting do you have to the brakes? From the picture, it doesn't look like any. I've replaced my fog lights with brake ducts. That can make a big difference.



Brakes lasting 4 to 5 events does not sound too unreasonable for that kind of useage.



Porsche/Brembo has some large 6 piston calipers you could look at fitting. I don't recall off hand which cars they are on.



Eric
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#13

Eric,



I haven't got any additional air ducting installed as yet. I know it is the first thing you do. However it is one of those thinks I keep putting a side as it is not as easy as it seams to be. club sport cars have this plastic plate on the bottom that picks cold air up and redirects it on to the disc. I did not want to loose fog lights unless I find right fitting(scoop) to go into same hall. Flexible tubing isn't a problem but than attaching it to the strut with those 265 profile tires turning around is another story. I think I will still leave that part when I upgrade my brakes. Unless thiss is the solution to my problem. you got me thinking now.



Zoran Letunica
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#14

I simply cut a hole in the back of the upper duct piece, routed the hose thru it and bolted the hose to the duct. I'm able to run 255 fronts with no problems. With my a-arms I can't run the lower portio of the scoop anyways.

   



Eric
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#15

Eric,



Very pretty A-arms...Charlie or Fabcar?



Jason
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#16

Zoran, what a wonderful problem to have! Lots of power, lots of speed needs lots of brakes. I have been interested in the new GTP Brakes that Brembo are developing. They are much lighter and smaller than the Big Reds and are supposed to be better at braking as well. This of course sounds "too good to be true". but Dave Greimann of 968 Engineering seemed to be impressed with them. I saw a write up on either this site or 968.net so you could search the archives or just contact Dave at: www.968engineering.com and he will fill you in. Good luck, Bob Blackwell.
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#17

Not Me Bob. I have no brake expertise.







PS I am gong to edit out the email address. It is easy pickings for spam bots to scoop up.
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#18

Quote:Very pretty A-arms...Charlie or Fabcar?




They are Charlie arms. They do look great - too bad no one can see them.
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#19

Zoran, the brake kit I was referring to is the Brembo GTP-LW kit and was mentioned in a very long post on the 968.net discussion forum. The person who posted the information is Paul at powerwerks. If you want to read about them go to 968.net Discussion forum and search for posts about Brembo GTP-LW brakes during the December 2004 time frame. I sent him an email and inquired about an update so maybe he will post an update here. good luck, Bob Blackwell.
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#20

Bob,



I have sent these people at least 3 e mails up to date and I have not sean response as yet. I wonder why?



Thanks for the info at 968net, Bob.



Nothing make sense, so much talk... and not much action.



Zoran Letunica
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