[Rap]

If this was a one time event no problemo, however if this happens frequently then you should see a shrink. Ds has been known to offer good psychiatric counseling.

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[ds968]

Sure, I may have offered ( arguably unqualified ) counseling to a few whine aficionados, not wine aficionados .

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[Chris Vais]

One of the classes I took in school was Sensory Analysis which is technical wine tasting. When we were evaluating wines the room was dead silent. Wine tasting or more importantly being able to record in your mind would be hard to do in a noisy environment. When I taste wine for blending, being able to test and record notes without disturbance is paramount.

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[ds968]

That makes perfect sense to me ..there are so many external factors which can influence ALL senses, taste is no different .

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[Roboman]

And I was about to sign up with a shrink, thank you Chris , actually last night we had a bottle of Gewürztraminer, Alsace, on our terrace. Not much happening in Tuchan on a Winter's evening so it was all quiet! The wine was lovely, stronger taste than expected, but no roughness.


So, Chris you are/were a vintner/sommelier?


I'm about to blend some of our wine. During the Summer my wife bought a small oak cask (about 15Lts) which still had a few Lts of sweet red in it (well that's what she told me, it might well have been full when she bought it!). Our wine is likewise sweet, but not heavily so. I thought I'd experiment with blending and oaking, see how it turns out.


I figure with sweet wine I'll probably get away with it, with dry red or white I'd be dead in the water

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[Chris Vais]

Roboman,

We have a history of winemaking in my family going back to my Grandfather who owned a grocery store in San Francisco. He immigrated here from Greece in 1906. He made wine to sell. Had a 600 gallon fermentor and made wine, mostly field blend Zinfandel from grapes he got from Italian growers in the Sonoma Valley. He lost the store in the depression, but still made wine for Greek Orthodox Archdiocese in San Francisco. My Dad and my Uncles also dabbled in it. In 2007 when the economy began to turn, I thought it would be a good idea to have alternative employment strategy, so at age 60, I went back to school and studied Enology, graduating in 2011. I worked for 10 years as the Ass't Winemaker at Longevity Wines in Livermore, CA. I am currently looking for a position as a winemaker here in Oregon. I may also see if I can land a job as a sommelier.

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[Roboman]

Good for you Chris, wine is most definitely in your genes! I have to say that I came late to wine, being of Irish stock it was mainly beer and whiskey (and the occasional "home brew"). However, I started to gain an interest in wine when I set up home in New Zealand, and now in France for more than a decade .... well, it's by osmosis. I'm very impressed you are still looking for work, but judging by your history I suspect it's also a hobby. Good luck finding a post.

Robert

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[Roboman]

I was thinking of you guys a couple of days back but have been too busy/tired to communicate....

Dan the cheese shot is for you. We're having an "after band practice" supper of cheese and wine, plus a few other bits. So I thought you might like to see the shopping basket. Great cheese, but I still haven't located wine from the US.

   

 

 

Rap, you may not believe it but my garage space is improving.  I washed down the walls last week, rearranged a few bits, gave away some floor and wall tiles I'd been hording, and thew out a few more bits.  You can't make a "silk purse out of a pig's ear", but if I can get good, clean, uncluttered working space I shall be happy.

[ATTACHMENT NOT FOUND]

 

Chris, I was walking through the vinyards a couple of mornings back, it was about 3C and one could just about touch the Pyrenees.  We walked passed an unpicked parcel. It made me wonder whether this was a late harvest, or just a deserted parcel, and then my thoughts drifted on to Oregon.  I'm assuming it doesn't get cold enough in California to really intensify the sweetness (I certainly could be wrong), but in Oregon??

   

 

I had trouble controlling photos and text, my apologies if they appear out of sequence.

 

Have a good weekend!

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[Rap]

Good job keep up the good work.

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[Chris Vais]

Roboman

 

I presume you are speaking of ice wine. Ice wine requires that the grapes freeze so the sugar is concentrated. It really doesn't get cold enough in California or in Oregon to make a true ice wine. But it is made in Northern New York. California produces late harvest wines that are generally sweet. The abundance of sunshine can drive the sugar up to and sometimes beyond 30 degrees brix. Wine with that much sugar will not ferment full dry. Once the alcohol level exceeds 15% abv the fermentation slows down. As you approach 17% the yeast will die. So late harvest grapes are usually fermented to about 14.5% to 15% ABV and then the fermentation generally stops with some residual sugar that is unfermented, giving the wine a sweeter flavor profile. Some winemakers will intentionally stop fermentation with some residual sugar to produce a wine that is sweeter.

 

The grapes you observed may have been left left in anticipation of making ice wine or they may not have been ripe enough to pick at harvest time. When I first started out winemaking for myself, I used seek permission to go into vineyards a week or so after they had been harvested to pick what was left behind. Made some really good wine from that fruit.

 

I love the view you have of the Pyrenees. I live in Lake Oswego. As I head down the street I can see Mt. Hood, 11, 200 feet in elevation, about 50 miles away. The Cascade Mountains are a series of stratovolcanoes beginning with Mt. Shasta in California, Crate Lake, The Sisters, Mt. Jefferson, Mt. Hood in Oregon, Mt. St. Helens, Mt Adams, Mt Rainier and Mt Baker in Washington. 

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[ds968]

Roboman, you’re an absolute jerk ( just kidding ) for posting that shopping cart full of cheese, knowing full well what it’s going to do to my cheese cravings !! Fortunately I’m having dinner tonight at one of California’s acclaimed restaurants ( Gary Danko ) which has an extraordinary selection of cheeses from all over the world . Not to mention wine . And agian, at an insurance company’s unlimited expense account , so I think I’ll Indulge ( at least in the cheese domain, I’m not fond of abusing the privilege when it comes to wine ).

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[Roboman]

[quote name="ds968" post="188486" timestamp="1576270386"]Roboman, youre an absolute jerk ( just kidding ) for posting that shopping cart full of cheese, knowing full well what its going to do to my cheese cravings !! Fortunately Im having dinner tonight at one of Californias acclaimed restaurants ( Gary Danko ) which has an extraordinary selection of cheeses from all over the world . Not to mention wine . And agian, at an insurance companys unlimited expense account , so I think Ill Indulge ( at least in the cheese domain, Im not fond of abusing the privilege when it comes to wine ).[/quote]


Hah! I couldn't resist the shot of the cheese Dan I trust you had an enjoyable dinner/evening. Cheers

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[ds968]

Yes I have, thanks. So getting back to wine .. we had a bottle of 2007 Kenzo Estate Rindo , a bottle of 2013 Continuum, and a bottle of ( also 2013 I think ) Scarecrow , the latter wich was unbelievably good, but at $ 900 ( restaurant price ) it better be ! All great wines I enjoyed, but even though it was on a company expense account, it seems just silly and stupid to spend that kind of money on something like that .

Also had eight different tastings of cheeses to end the meal; six from France, Spain and Italy, and two local cheeses. And I have to mention truffles - tons and tons p of white and black truffles, with every dish we had .


At some point Ill probably burn in the eternal flames of hell for partaking in this hedonistic lifestyle while so may others around the world are suffering and just looking for their next dayss simple meal, and I do feel some guilt ( the day after ..) but Ill cross that bridge when I come to it. Until then, Im going to live in the moment .

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[Roboman]

Sadly I will not indulge in wine at such prices, but I'm very pleased for you.  And if you're going to burn in hell for eternity then you may as well enjoy the precursor as much as you can.

 

I have failed to locate wine from the US at outlets here in Southern France so I'm going to ask a friend in UK to find a couple of bottles for me and bring them over in March when he returns.

We like full bodied reds, usually around 14%-15% .... having said that, I don't mind Pinot which usually comes in around 13%.

 

So, I'm looking to you guys for some recommendations. What do you suggest in the $60 - $100 range, preferably from wineries near to you?

 

Dan, I don't know how my wife is going to set the table for "apres-band" cheese and wine supper, but if it's just a table piled with cheese I'll take a photo for you.  Oh, and talking of truffles, I'm going to a truffle market next Saturday en route to lunch and wine tasting at my favourite outlet ... I'll let you know how the "truffle hunt" goes.

 

I hope you guys are having a good weekend, Robert

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[Rap]

Perhaps the Donald should put tariffs on all French wine until its markets are open or more open to US wine. I took my poor widowed Mother and wife out for Thai on Friday. We got a deal on glasses of wine for $4.00 a glass. Not the best wine I’ve ever had nor one I would have pared with the cuisine but couldn’t beat the price. Since I paid for dinner I was delighted at the cost. Last weekend we were in DC and the price for dinners was mind boggling. Certainly quite a different perspective between markets and pricing.  

Dan it was decided long ago whether you are going to heaven or hell. Enjoy life and be merry while you can.

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[ds968]

Were a $ 125 Billion ( with a B ) market cap value company, larger in that sense than the value of 98 out of the biggest 100 insurance companies in the world, I am a C level exec there and yet I would not dare to use my companys expense account to buy a bottle of wine for anymore than $ 200 ( restaurant price ) no matter whom I may be hosting. Not that anyone would question it, but Id question my own judgment and cant bring myself to spend that kind of money on fleeting entertainment . AYet the insurance companies and brokers regularly spend thousands of dollars for lunches and dinners on a weekly basis , and with many of their clients . Our dinner ( I peeked at the tab ) for the 4 of us was $ 3,300 ..without the gratuity at a very nice additional $ 700 ! So a $ 1,000 per person meal . And sure, its a tax deduction for the company , it supports the economy , yada, yada, blah, blah, blah ...but simply nuts IMO .


Anyway, its unfortunate that US wines are not widely available in France , but protectionism laws and practices are widespread in most of Europe, so its not surprising . Politics aside, where they are available, Id think at a $ 60 - $ 100 retail cost you should be able to get quite a lot of very good wines even in the full body reds category from venues like Paso Robles CA. Napa is getting too expensive, but plenty of top wines from there as well under $ 100. Although at the moment I cant think of any given vintage, wineries such as Turley, Denner, Justin, Tablas Creek , and Booker ( all Paso Robles ) produce consistently good wines and IIRC, plenty of those well under $ 100. As for Napa / Sonoma region , Plump Jack, Nickel & Nickel ( the poorer cousin of Far Niente but just as good wines IMO ) Silver Oak ( but their Alexander Valley wines, as their Napa wines have gotten stupid expensive ) , Honig, Etude , or Jospeh Phelps are also some wineries where you cant really go wrong with a bottle in the aforementioned price range .


Not sure how you feel about Robert Parker or Wine Spectator ratings criteria, but may be worth searching those two sources for wines with 90 - 95 points rating, and I think youll be surprised how many will come up in that $ 60 to $ 100 range ..

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[Roboman]

Thanks guys, I'm waiting for Chris to chime in and then I'll send suggestions to my friend.  Actually on second thoughts I can go online to Majestic or similar to see their stock.

 

Re tariffs ... I too agree with free market and level competition, neither tariffs nor subsidies, nor "reimbursements" ...... fair competition is good for us punters and should be good for product improvement, but it's a long way off happening as production costs are not equal all over the world.  Remember I'm an engineer and not a businessman, so don't expect me to have a grip on all the complexities, but wages in Ethiopia (remember Rift Valley Red?) are a fraction of those in Western nations.

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[Chris Vais]

I'm going to look into the cost of shipping wine to France. Given what good French wine cost on the US West Coast perhaps we can engage in a little bit of intercontinental trade.

 

Wineries I would recommend from Napa: Chateau Montalena, Cliff Lede; from Sonoma: Seghesio, Acorn, Papapietro-Perry, J Wine Company, UNTI; from Paso Robles: Tablas Creek, Fratelli Perata; from Livermore: Longevity (where I worked for 10 years as Asst. Winemaker), Occasio, McGrail.

 

Wine tasting in California is changing. It used to be that one paid a nominal tasting fee that was typically refunded if you purchased wine. These days tasting customers want an "experience" and are willing to pay for it and they rarely buy wine. So the cost of the "experience" is $40 a head or more and no longer refunded with a purchase. 

 

Wine tasting at Longevity was much different. We charged a nominal fee, refundable with purchase of wine, if the customer wanted to speak to the winemakers, Phil or I would come into the tasting room to talk to customers even if we had tannin stained hands, or wine splattered clothing. Our only sales outlet was the tasting room and some local wine bars, markets.

 

I found a great wine shop in Portland called Great Wine Buys. Every month the feature a mixed red/white case for an average price of $110. Always a nice of wines from local producers, and from Europe, South Africa, New Zealand and Australia. Haven't had a bottle I didn't care for yet. They also offer free tastings Fridays and Saturdays. My favorite market, Zupan's has the best wine selection I have ever seen in a market and they have a cellar, full of wonderful things. They offer free beer and wine tastings on Fridays.

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[ds968]

$ 40 tasting charge ?! Oof, I wonder if theyre getting much traffic at those rates .. .

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[Roboman]

Tasting hereabouts is free, in fact I don't think I've ever paid for tasting anywhere in France. I have paid for tastings in other European countries and it changes my mindset. If I have a free tasting I try to find something to buy; "quid pro quo" springs to mind :/ there's an outlet 50yards from my house; we don't like their wine. On two occasions we've taken friends (two different seasons) and on neither occasion could we come to terms with their dry wines; far, far too strong on tannins. So we bought some of their olive oil and sweet wines; trying to support local productors. Had we paid for their tasting I wouldn't have bothered to buy anything.


However, someone must have bought a bottle to one of our parties, I found it a couple of weeks back when rearranging the cave. I guess I should drag it out and see how it has settled down.


Thanks all for your recommendations, we'll see how that pans out. Cheers, Robert

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