[lbpesq]

Gay marriage legalized on the same day as marijuana makes perfect biblical sense. The accepted interpretation has just been wrong for all these years.



Leviticus 20:13: "A man who lays with another man should be stoned."

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[ds968]

Very funny. And btw, on the legalized pot measure in Colorado one also must realize how many business opportunities this presents ; I am currently in negotiations to buy all the available Domino, Papa John and Round Table franchises in that state..

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[Rap]

Bless the voters who will supply us with a steady stream of new patients.

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[flash]

ds - lol - i'm going to buy a taco bell

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[94SilverCab]

My Frito Lay and Oreo stock is through the roof. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.png" class="smilie" alt="" />



It's about time that the law reflects the will of the people. I don't smoke pot for one reason, it's illegal and I could put my employment in jeopardy, otherwise there is no good reason on Earth why one plant is ok and another is not.



Before the anti's get all up in arms, NO, I don't think that 4 year olds should be allowed to smoke pot and then operate bulldozers. But, if you are sitting on the couch on a Saturday night with nothing more dangerous than a TV remote and a bag of chips...none of my business which mind altering substance you choose.



If heroin were legalized I still woudn't touch it. To tell you the truth, I'm way more offended by someone who smokes a cigarette next to me, than if someone were to snort a line of coke (don't disturb my right to fresh air).



As for gay marriage, that's probably not going to be an issue for me either so I'll let other people decide how to live their own lives, I have enough to do living mine.



JMHO,



Jay

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[bva]

unfortunately, the cannabis legislation is too late to save Hostess

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[flash]

as long as they figure out a way to keep people from driving like that, i don't care what they do at home. i've been in the car with too many stoned people though, and it's not fun. yes, i know that everybody thinks they can drive while they're high, but they can't. it's different than driving drunk, but it's just as bad. i don't want to get killed by some stoned idiot on his way to taco bell at 1 in the morning. once they figure out how to test for that on the road, they can lock them up just the same as drunks. by the way, regardless of whether or not the substance is legal, it's still illegal to be intoxicated in public by anything.



and yes, i've tried it plenty of times. i don't get it. i'll stick to my wine, but i won't drive if i have the second glass.

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[Ryan]

BVA...good one! Twinkies RIP

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[Monstrous4Banger]

[quote name='Rap' timestamp='1353061960' post='134849']

Bless the voters who will supply us with a steady stream of new patients.

[/quote]

Out of curiosity, how many patients do you accept on an annual basis, that check in because of cannabis alone, or cannabis at all? Adults that is, and not court appointed "treatment".





Ithink gay marriage has held back cannabis legislation. Theyve been trying to group us under the same tent for years. Marriage is a religious institution, last Ichecked we still have something called seperation of church and state. In short, instead of asking how we can interject govt into everyones life, we sould be thinking how can we get them to butt out. There are plenty of churches that will recognize gay marriage already. The bottom line is really tax breaks, and legalities isnt it? Abolish the IRS, problem solved. Ahhh man, a marriage "license", whatll they come up with next?

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[lbpesq]

[quote name='Monstrous4Banger' timestamp='1353078876' post='134857']

Marriage is a religious institution

[/quote]





Not mine. A wonderful marriage that just passed the 11 year mark. Nothing religious about it.



As for driving, I must disagree with Flash on this one. While I certainly don't condone driving under the influence of anything that impedes your abilities, (I won't drive on Actifed when my allergies act up), driving on cannabis is not even close to the danger that driving drunk on alcohol represents. Studies suggest that people under the influence of alcohol tend to drive faster and take more chances, while those under the influence of cannabis tend to drive slower and take fewer chances. Also, unlike alcohol, when the driver is an experienced cannabis smoker the influence on driving sharply declines . With alcohol, experienced drunks are just as bad as newbies. I don't mean to suggest that it's o.k. to drive on weed. Just that it isn't nearly the problem that alcohol is when it comes to the roads. I'd certainly feel safer knowing that the guy coming the other way on the country road is stoned as opposed to drunk. Of course, I'd feel safer still if he's sober, period.



As for roadside tests, they can do sobriety tests for cannabis just like for alcohol. It is just as illegal to drive impaired by cannabis as alcohol. There is a big difference, however, when it comes to per se limits, like .08 BAC for alcohol. The difference is scientific - presence of THC or its metabolites in one's system doesn't correlate as accurately with impairment as does presence of alcohol. This is due to the fact that alcohol metabolizes very quickly while THC and it's metabolites hang around long after the intoxicating effects have passed. But chemical testing for presence of THC or its metabolites, combined with the officer's observations, and results of field sobriety tests, can still result in a DUI conviction for cannabis intoxication.



Bill

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[Monstrous4Banger]

While your marriage may not be based on any religion, per se, the very concept by which marriage is based on is religious, and philosophical In origin. Without religion(largely judeo-christian American culture) we wouldnt have the concept of what a "marriage" even is. Marriage is a result of ancient religious beliefs, and how society was structured back then.

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[flash]

i hear that "experienced user" argument all the time, from people who drive on alcohol and pot. try doing a timed rubik's cube test. your reaction times are slower, your focus is reduced. both of those alone make you a bigger risk. try multitasking. it really doesn't matter which one is worse. that's like asking you if it's worse to die by gunshot or decapitation.



the testing needs to be far more accurate, like it is with alcohol. otherwise, cases will be thrown out of court, blaming the results on previous exposure, and not what was present at the time, or the subjective opinion of the officer, and not empirical data. as soon as they can do that, then i have no issue.

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[94SilverCab]

I'm thinking the Marijuana reform movement should not lean forward on the "experienced driver" argument, definately not a winner. As I prefaced my prior approval of legalization/reform, no one should be operating anything more than a TV remote under the influence (of any substance).



An old Fighter Pilot friend of mine always said (about alcohol) ...12 hours bottle to throttle...



I think that's pretty sound,



Jay

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[lbpesq]

From a political standpoint, I heartily agree that trying to argue that cannabis is not a real danger on the roads is a loser. But, from a purely scientific point of view, it is undeniably safer than alcohol. That isn't the same as saying it's safe, just that it doesn't create the same level of danger. As far as convictions go, if the cop testifies to actual observed impaired driving (weaving, running a red light, 25 mph on the freeway, etc.), and the driver fails the FSTs, and the DRE (Drug Recognition Expert - cops with special training - most police departments these days have several who are regularly called out to the scene when an officer suspects intoxication other than alcohol) testifies the driver appeared to be under the influence, and a blood test shows presence of THC (THC in the blood passes MUCH quicker than THC metabilites in the urine), it is extemely difficult to avoid a conviction. Don't believe what you see on TV. Juries these days look very harshly at anyone charged with a DUI of any kind. MADD and others have done an incredible job of shifting public opinion over the last 20 years on this issue. It is extremely difficult to beat a DUI charge, even with a "fancy-pants" lawyer. (Personally, my pants are fairly plain).



Bill

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[Rap]

We treat 1500 patients a year plus another 800 family members come for an educational weekend. More adolescents are pot only a users than adults. Unfortunately that number is more driven by where they are in their abuse history. Longer the abuse, less pot use and graduation to more serious drugs. Add the fact that generally speaking adolescents will try to or use whatever is available instead of say being a more discriminating user. Availability through legalization will increase use and abuse and the eventual need for treatment for that percentage who become addicted. People make choices everyday as is their right. Of course there are consequences for most choices. I encourage the discussion of legalization only because any problem can only be adequately solved when all options are discussed. Legalization has the potential to solve many problems that exist today. I don't believe legalization by itself is the best option. Other factors need to not only be weighed but systems put in place to deal with the results emanating from legalization. Prevention, treatment, FST's and enhanced DRE for example. Consumer education regarding some of the potential issues arising might also be considered. Just a quick opinion and snapshot. Feel free to disagree!

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[flash]

i disagree about the relative safety. the single most dangerous thing is a distraction or lack of focus. both alcohol and pot reduce focus. degradation of reflexes is next up. same there. it really doesn't matter which one is worse though. they are both dangerous and people who drive under the influence of either should be heavily penalized



i'll put cell phones right up there with alcohol and pot or any other such drug

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[lbpesq]

Legalization will not increase availability to adolescents. In fact, it will have the opposite effect. Anyone who doesn't recognize that cannabis is already easily available in the middle and high schools throughout the country has their head in the sand. In today's America, it is far easier for a 13 year old to obtain a bag of weed than a bottle of Jack Daniels. There is no requirement to show ID for the cannabis.



As for the "Gateway Theory" it has long been debunked from a scientific standpoint. However, by keeping cannabis illegal, the result is that the "store" that sells cannabis (neighborhood drug dealer), also sells heroin, cocaine, speed, etc. It is the prohibition of cannabis that exposes adolescents to a supply of other drugs. In recognition of this phenomena, the Dutch allowed the coffee shops in an effort to separate cannabis from the "hard drugs". It has been remarkably successful. The percentage of teens using cannabis is smaller than here, and the percentage that go on to use other drugs is much smaller than here.



The bottom line is that, as Abraham Lincoln recognized many years ago, prohibition laws don't work and are anathema to the concept of personal freedom that is the cornerstone of this nation. People have used cannabis for many years and will continue to do so. There will be a market in cannabis whether it is prohibited or not. Rather than continue with an expensive failed policy that is based on denial, this market should be regulated, controlled, and the money it generates should go to things like our schools and public eduction rather than into the pockets of criminals.



Bill

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[flash]

you're right - prohibition laws don't work



that being said, what we need are stiff laws prohibiting being under the influence, in public, of ANY drug. that would put the responsibility on the user. that would keep use in the home, ensure that privacy is not affected, and allow people to do whatever they wanted within the confines of their own home.

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[lbpesq]

Flash:



Would you outlaw serving alcohol or even coffee in restaurants? (Yes, caffeine is certainly a drug). Using Cannabis at a concert? Car clubs sampling wine in central California? My wife's epilepsy medicine sometimes leaves her a little "spacey" shortly after she takes it. Should she be subject to criminal prosecution if she steps outside our front door?



Drugs can be both used and abused, like just about everything else, including cars, guns, knives, public address systems, television, hip hop music, pizza - just about anything one can imagine, (except for Twinkies which are about to become extinct!)

One can be safely "under the influence" in a public place. I have no problem whatsoever with the guy who sits next to me at the ballgame, downs a couple of beers, gets a little buzz on, enjoys the game, and rides BART or the bus home, or gets a ride from his designated driver friend. On the other hand, I have a big problem with the other guy at the ballgame who gets trashed, yells obscenities at the opposing team's fans, starts fights, and then gets behind the wheel after the game. "Under the influence" is an extremely broad term open to many different interpretations. I have no problem with regulating unreasonable, irresponsible behavior, but people can also alter their consciousness in a non-abusive, responsible manner without presenting a danger to anyone or infringing on another's rights.



Bill

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[Monstrous4Banger]

Meh, more laws, and bureaucracy. Howbout education , taking responsibility, and stop lying to people about the properties of drugs through false propaganda?



I tend to agree about driving, or operating machinery. We do need a better rebuttal/solution. From a scientific point of view, I must be honest and say we just dont know yet. The research still needs to be done. The problem is the legalities. Since its a controlled substance, it makes it hard for legitimate unibased research to be done. The data just isnt there yet, IMO. With new legislation, we will know more answers.



The bigger picture to point out here, isnt the potential for frito lay, or fast food. Thats just the beginning, icing on the cake. Its use, and interest as a drug will boom at first, then level out. The phenomenon will pass, and I expect revenue from the newly formed industry drop off, and plateau.The real benefit is the multitude of other uses. Food, oil, textiles, fuel, too much to list. It really does have more uses than any other plant. With legalizing will come all of that too. The reason special interests lobbied so hard against it, sensationalizing the psychoactive varieties, is because it was so cheap, and useful. Its competition to petroleum, corn, big pharma, textile ind, etc. Its the most beneficial plant in history. Has served society well for thousands of years, and will again. Its simply foolish to not be utilizing its uses. Textile varieties of cannabis dont even get you high, but are illegal. Where is the logic in that?

Forget drill, baby drill...grow, baby grow!!!! Thats the real hidden gem in all of this. Sound crazy, too good to be true? Im gonna develop an all weather blend of b100 soon. Ive studying the chem behind it lately, it seeming like a good time to start putting my focus on alt fuels more, and more. If for nothing else but a hobby, and putting to use all the knowledge Ipaid a pretty penny to learn in school. I like to go back, and dust off the textbooks once in a while.....I guess im a nerd. Haha.

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