[JScara]

Trying to decide if I should track my 968. I recently sold my 911 track only car and I know I will go mad if I can't track a car this year. Ultimately I will save up for another 911 but some other expenses are taking 1st position this year.



I would imagine that the 968 is in F or E class in PCA, have to check that later. I would like to build a car that would be attractive for resale to a DE newcomer or novice racer later down the road, so please share some advice on doing this on the cheap (yeah like this will be cheap <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/ohmy.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> )but will make for an attractive car later.



Mechanicals are up to date on a 100% stock car.



I have some spare seats, belts etc. so my budget would be for the basics:



Shocks and Struts

Anti Roll Bars

Cage

Fire

track wheels & Tires

Track rotors and pads (I hear these heavy cars are murder on brakes)



Thanks

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[cooz]

i would advise you to look hard at this.



i sold my street/track 95 993 that i thought i'd keep forever to continue to support my 968 racer.

i started with a stock 968 two years ago and have spent a sh_t load of $$ and it never ends.



you can begin to evolve the 968 into an enjoyable track car on a budget, but it will not be competitive or attractive to a serious racer without many $$ spent. Without even getting down to the nitty gritty details, good suspension set-up (wheels, tires, shocks, springs, sway bars, camber plates, charlie arms, race bushings/bearings/mounts, etc.) and good interior set-up (cage, seats, belts, nets, wheel, etc) alone is expensive.



if your 968 is nice with good selling value, it may be more cost effective to sell your 968 and develop a 944S2 into a track/race car. it may cost you less to start with a 944S2.....cost to build into tracker/racer would be similar.....performance would be similar.....and resaleability may be better. S2 track/race car would probably attract more future buyers than 968 track/race car. a 944 should be even more cost effective.



all that being said....i'd like to see more 968 racers out there <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />



my 2 cents



norm mandell

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[Eric_K]

I think you could easily spend 10k to have a minimally prepared PCA Stock class racer -especially if you factor in labor costs. To me, the most important part of a track/race car sellability is the roll cage. Sadly, while the other bits are important, they are all basically consumables. But, the cage is hard/expensive to change.



My advice, if you are going to do it, is to buy the best stuff you can afford. Expect to get pennies back for every dollar you spend (if that). Have fun and worry about re-sale later. If you are tracking it, there is always the possibility you won't have anything left to re-sell anyway.



I would check out Leda or Bilstien escort cup shocks. They are proven and not crazy expensive. There are lots of other brands and price ranges out there. The Porsche M030 sway bars are a cost effective upgrade. The stock 17 in wheels would work. If you are serious I would look around your area for some to do a welded in cage.



Good luck.

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[Jim Child]

The 968 falls into PCA F class. If you want an attractive turn key car for a novice racer, I'd agree with Eric and say you need to spend at least $10,000. If you want one that will be able to regularly compete for the podium, then you'll spend over $15,000. I've spent almost that much on my car, and I'd spend more on my cage if I had it to do all over again. In addition to the items on your list you'll want upgraded front brakes on a race car, specifically the M030 front calipers and rotors, if its to be a PCA F class car.



If you just want a DE capable car you can spend considerably less, perhaps doing only the first couple of stages necessary to eventually migrate the car into a competitive racer. For example you could a first class job on the safety stuff, cage, seats, belts, etc. for under $5,000 and have a car that would be very safe and lots of fun in DE's. You could also do a few other cheap mods such as adding the M030 bars. This would be a car that could be sold as a DE car, or as a platform for someone else to finish turning into a race car with their own suspension choices.



You could also do nothing, and just take your car to the track. Before I started its evolution into a race car I drove my stock M030 968 in DE's for two years with nothing more than track tires, track pads and an extra set of wheels.

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[Larry Weinstein]

I agree with Jim. If you're already thinking resale, you probably should do as little as possible until you see how much you enjoy the car on the track. The 968 will probably feel very different from the 911. Don't plan to get much back from your investment in turning the car into a track car either. Once you've welded in a cage, or installed a solid bushing suspension, your market for resale starts to get a lot smaller...and 968s probably aren't as popular with PCA racers as the 944 turbos for F stock. BTW, Childs kicks ass with his 968. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[orphanowner]

[quote name='Larry Weinstein' post='29022' date='Dec 13 2006, 05:44 PM']I agree with Jim. If you're already thinking resale, you probably should do as little as possible until you see how much you enjoy the car on the track. The 968 will probably feel very different from the 911. Don't plan to get much back from your investment in turning the car into a track car either. Once you've welded in a cage, or installed a solid bushing suspension, your market for resale starts to get a lot smaller...and 968s probably aren't as popular with PCA racers as the 944 turbos for F stock. BTW, Childs kicks ass with his 968. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />[/quote]



I bought my 968 with the intention of building an F stock PCA car. I had just sold a fairly competitive 944T GT3S car and wanted to compete in something more dependent on driver skill than cubic dollars. I thought about it good and hard and came to the conclusion that I'd let someone else get pennies on the dollar for a used racecar and it was better to be on the buying end of that equation.



Consider an F stock 944T. There are plenty of good cars out there and the turbo engine, once sorted, is very long lived at legal boost shifting at 5800 rpm. This contrasts nicely with the 16 valve 944 engines that will require red line shifts to make competitive power. Not a slam on the 16 valve cars, just an observation.

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[Jim Child]

944 Turbos are great cars, but if you want to be able to run up front you would probably be better off with a 944 Turbo S running in E class where they are very competitive. The non-S 944 Turbos are not particularly competitive in F class. There's only one that I know of that occasionally earns a podium finish, and he is usually beaten if a well prepared 944 S2 or 968 shows up. The non-S 944 turbos are at a bit of a disadvantage to the 944 S2's and 968's since they have to run narrower tires and smaller brakes.

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[orphanowner]

[quote name='Jim Child' post='29188' date='Dec 19 2006, 11:10 AM']944 Turbos are great cars, but if you want to be able to run up front you would probably be better off with a 944 Turbo S running in E class where they are very competitive. The non-S 944 Turbos are not particularly competitive in F class. There's only one that I know of that occasionally earns a podium finish, and he is usually beaten if a well prepared 944 S2 or 968 shows up. The non-S 944 turbos are at a bit of a disadvantage to the 944 S2's and 968's since they have to run narrower tires and smaller brakes.[/quote]



Jim of course you are right. I meant E stock with a turbo S.

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[Larry Weinstein]

Of course, in E Stock you're going to be running against a lot of very good drivers who also know how good a Turbo S can be.

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[Charles Geer]

Cost of competitive PCA F, PCA E, NASA GTS3 968.

I broke a few things on the way to building a solid car but I think weve finally got it right.

$ 16,000 for the car (still totally street with pristine interior) Came with MO 30 package...priceless.

$ 6,ooo Moton remote reservoir shocks, spherical / delren bushings, camber paltes, hypercoil springs.

$ 1,000 Custom exhaust with loud muffler

$ 450 Harmonic Balancer from a 944 S2 to reduce vibration

$1500 Roll cage

$300 electrical cut off switch

$800 Sparco racing seat

$300 Quick release sparco steering wheel

$1000 New waterpump, belts, rollers.

$10,000 Labor to install plus suspension set up, Additional labor cost to gut stock and convert to GTS Nasa

racer.



All said depending on how cheap you can get your labor, you are looking at a minimum investment of about $10,000. My car has cost around $27,000 (not including car) to build because it has a couple of extra lite weight bits to make it competitive in non stock racing (Lite weight club sport fan, battery, carpet and sound deadening material, removal of air bags, A/C delete, cool suit, hans device etc lexan windows.



This car has won races in PCA F and Nasa, it has podiumed every event since its third race.



We are starting to see 968s in E racing. Because the car is new to the class it has not yet begun to dominate like it does in F.



But, it probably will....Why? Because an E class 968 with chip weighs in at only 2900 lbs where as the 944 Turbo S must weigh 3000 llbs.



Furthermore: The power to rate ratio favors the 968 in PCA E racing

Turbo S 12.14

968 11.98



Yes you got to run the RPM's up high in the car to be competitive but that is the case for all front runners.

I've got so much confidence that the 968 is the dominant car that I am going to campain it against higher horsepower BMW M3's and 996 Porsches in the NASA GTS 3 class.



Now that I have lightened the car I find that this car has incredible torque. It runs up the back end of cars with higher H.P. when exiting the corners. On long straights expect the faster cars to pull you but it won't be as bad as you would think.



Our car's excellent chassis dynamics allow it to enter corners fast and exit even faster.

In short...If you want to win...you'd better be in a 968 . <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/cool.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[bigd_SD]

I echo the comments above. Make a choice about what you want to do long term with your car...



If want a competitive race car - buy someone else's pre-built for pennies on the dollar.



If want a competitive AX/DE fun car - drop the $5k into your 968 and enjoy the heck out of it. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/rolleyes.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />



David

San Diego

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[Clem]

I'm late to this thread, and I agree with most of the comments already made.



My general thoughts are that if you are looking for a temporary race car, try to find the best built one you can. If you are interested in a race car for the longer term, build one. Yes, it's expensive, but all race cars are expensive.

I think there is a common misconception that a built car doesn't need much work. Well, do the belts need updating? Is the cage compliant? Does the seat fit you? Do you like the steering wheel? Is the suspension ideal? What about maintenance history? Quality of work? It goes on and on and on.



A race car is a very personal thing, imo. If you really want one that fits you, and suits your needs, you will have to spend money - money you will never get back.



I faced this decision 2 years ago and decided to say "f it" and my once-upon-a-time-bone-stock street car is now a full blown racer. Yes, I spent a ton, but I love the car and am glad I built it.



Best of luck!



Jim

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