[Rap]

Good article in today’s WSJ on smoke tainted grapes and the use of tech to overcome unpalatable smoke taste. Timely for the conversation.

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[ds968]

Smokey scotch is an acquired taste and highly appreciated by connoisseurs .  Although there are some which taste as you’ve been licking an ashtray .,   Maybe people will start to appreciate smokey wines as well ?!   

 

Bob, no link to the WSJ article you could post ?   You’re making us work to search for it ?!   Sheesh... 

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[Chris Vais]

In my opinion smoke taint is not easily removed. Every one of the winemakers I've talked to has said that would not make wine from smoke tainted grapes and neither would I. The big commercial producers like Gallo or Franzia might make wine from smoke tainted fruit because they already do so much chemical manipulation of their bulk wines.

 

Grape growers have no incentive to harvest smoke tainted fruit because their crop insurance will cover the loss. If a wine maker accepts smoke tainted fruit and makes wine from it and the wine is not salable, they are stuck with the loss. 

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[Rap]

If they don’t use the grapes is there a secondary market to offload them?

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[MCL968]

If they don’t use the grapes is there a secondary market to offload them?

New for 2022, "Campfire Raisin Bran Cereal!" All the experience of breakfast while camping in your own kitchen.

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[ds968]

New for 2022, "Campfire Raisin Bran Cereal!" All the experience of breakfast while camping in your own kitchen.

:lol:

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[Chris Vais]

Smoke tainted wine, as is the case with other wine that is off spec usually goes to vinegar production. Smoke tainted fruit is dropped on the ground and then tilled into the soil. The nitrogen it contains will help kick start the vines the following spring,

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[Roboman]

Campfire cereal .... someone will jump on that .... cheap product with market edge!



Sorry to be out of the loop, presently in UK, all work and little play.



The French harvest is in play as we speak, I shall be interested to talk to the vignerons on my return regarding the effect of the frost in March.

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[Chris Vais]

The usual impact from frost is a smaller crop. the wine have to rely on secondary buds for cane production and subsequently fruit production. Secondary buds are never as fruitful as the primary buds.

 

The wine grape crop here in California is going to be smaller than it has been recently, primarily due to the warm winter season we had last year. What fruit there is looks really nice. This will be the first year, in 23 years that I will not be actively making wine. Saddens me to even think about it. Perhaps next year, we'll see.

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[Roboman]

Hi guys, I had to comment even though very late to do so ......



Well the late frost decimated the local harvest; typical is a 25% harvest and to make matters worse we had late rains resulting in reduced intensity. I'm usually sceptical when the wine farmers start whining, but there's no doubt about it this year.... not good!



Our own harvest was not effected and for the first time we've decided on natural fermentation. The sg started around 1100 and ran out at 1020, so we're hoping for residual sweetness. The colour is a deeper red than our previous brews so fingers crossed for some decent wine after a few year of laying down.



How are you settling in Chris? I'm sure you will have surveyed the scene for prospective vines, good luck with it all.

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[Roboman]

Hi guys and gals ..... did you try this orange wine??



I bought a few bottles early on, tried one and wasn't too impressed; not bad but not great .... temp was probably around 12C.



I've not tried it again since .... (maybe 3-4 months, too lazy to check back on this thread) but am having some as I write (literally) as my wife prepares dinner. Much better this time around!



It's been in my garage fridge for a while so I guess is around 7C, the first taste was hohum, but after a short while it improved and also probably my palate adapted.



Anyway, for Euro10 it is very affordable and worth an experiment.



At the other end of the scale I have added Gosset to my Champagne collection ....... a recent colleague through my Citroen5HP association. Very, very nice guy and, cf this forum, very generous of spirit.



.    

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[Chris Vais]

I've tried orange wine. I think that the ones produced in Slovenia are probably the best, for no other reason, it is

their traditional method. Orange wines are created by fermenting white wine grapes on the stems in the same way that one ferments a whole cluster red wine. Whole cluster means that the grapes are not destemmed. 

 

The normal way in which you make a white wine is to either destem the grapes or leave the clusters intact. In either case the fruit is immediately pressed with the juice going into stainless steel tanks and then chilled to 40 degrees F. This causes the solids to settle out. The clear juice is racked off the solids and placed in tanks or barrels for fermentation.

 

The Slovenians did not have access to refrigerated tanks. Their traditional method for fermenting red wine is to ferment it in large clay vessels that are placed in the ground, a reasonably effect means for controlling the temperature during fermentation. Having no other alternatives the white was fermented in the same manner. The seeds and skins give the wine its orange color and also release some tannin during fermentation. So  in addition to the orange color, these wines have more tannin than a traditional white wine. Some people find the higher tannin level in a white wine to be undesirable. I think orange wines pair well with some foods. Wouldn't pair it with Dover sole, but I have drunk it with grilled salmon and smokes pork ribs.

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[Roboman]

It's that wonderful time of the year when the countryside turns into a patchwork quilt, so I wanted to share this with you.

 

   

 

Top left is Chateau d'Aguilar, our local 12C Cathar castle, bottom right is Canigu, the highest point of the eastern Pyrenees 

 

I've never visited a vineyard in the US at any time, let alone at this time of the year, can someone please take a photo the next time they pass a vineyard and post it here.  I'd love to compare size, shape, and colours of the fields.

 

Cheers to you all

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[ds968]

So  beautiful !     Great montage photo as well ! 

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[Roboman]

I can't take credit for the photo, my wife has an app on her phone. But at this time of the year the air is crisp and clear and the fields are a blaze of colour. I shall try to take a shot from some elevation, the small fields with various grape types make for wonderful views.

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[ds968]

Random thought ..

Every box of raisins is a tragic tale of grapes that could have been wine.  

 

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[Roboman]

Hmmm we knew someone in the ME who thought along that line ..... he would buy 1Lt cartons of grape juice, add yeast, and then put a latex glove over the top with pin holes in the fingers.

 

I only tasted his wine once (or visited him again as it was a cringe-worthy evening) but anyway, the taste was truly awful and several of us suddenly became abstemious! 

 

However, in the right hands I fully support your random thought   which prompts another ..... can a half decent wine be made out of any variety of grape, or do some grapes just not work when it comes to fermentation?

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[Chris Vais]

Table grapes from which raisins are made have about 1/2 the amount of sugar that wine grapes have. That said the process of raising does concentrate the sugar. To make wine from raisins you would have to rehydrate them and then determine how much sugar to add in order to get a successful fermentation.

 

When making wine from wine grapes that have lots of raisins in amongst the grapes you will have to account for the fact that the raisins will rehydrate in the must after the fruit is destemmed and crushed. This will cause your sugar level to elevate so you would need to do a final Brix measurement before fermentation. If the Brix level is too high you would add water to bring the Brix down. If you don't and the Brix level is too high you risk producing a high alcohol slightly off dry wine that tastes awful.

 

A friend of mine did this with over ripe Sangiovese grapes with clusters full of raisins. The result was a sweet jammy tasting wine that was 21% alcohol and undrinkable. I used the bottle he gave me as marinade for some brisket that I BBQ'd. The result brisket you could cut with a fork.

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[Roboman]

Seems like the answer is " unlikely". I have often read of guys who nip to the supermarket,, buy a few Kgs of grapes, and hey presto they have great wine! I don't think so ......



Thanks Chris, always good.



I hope the settling in is going well.

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[Roboman]

As promised, here's a better look at the patchwork quilt effect of Napoleonic law ..... property is equally divided between first family children so that they are not disinherited by children/spouses from marriages in later life.  Then there is the combination of grape varieties, Fitou requires a blend of Grenache, Sirah, and Carignan which turn different colours during Autumn, and add to that the uniformity of the height of the vines .... it creates a wonderful layer of colour and texture which follows the contours of the countryside.

 

   

 

Bottom centre left is the castle of Queribus, a 12C castle which once formed the boarder between "France" and "Spain".  It's in okay condition but is a bit tough on me 'ips these days.

 

I hope you enjoy this ....

 

 

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