[Cloud9...68]

As it says in the subject line, I need to replace the leaking transaxle input shaft seal, and am hoping I can do it without dropping the transaxle. But either way, I need to pull the input shaft out of the seal. Porsche provided two windows, a large one, and a small, round one, so it looks as if they went out of their way to make it possible to get at this seal without having the drop the tranny. Through both of these openings, a clamp that fits around the input shaft is easily accessible. I've removed the bolts that tighten each of these clamps around the input shaft, and have tapped the clamp openings with a cold chisel to try to separate them, but, unlike the driveshaft that goes into the clutch, which slipped backward away from the clutch very easily, the shaft going into the transaxle is stuck pretty tight. Do I just need to tug on it harder? Below are pictures of what I'm talking about. The top picture is taken through the larger opening closer to the rear of the car, and the bottom picture shows the smaller hole a few inches forward of the larger opening. You can see the clamps in both images.



I know there are several people here (xrad, Ecic_K, and kwikt(sp?)) who have removed their transaxles, so obviously it's doable, and they would have had to move the transaxle input shaft out of the way to do it. It sure appears that if the input shaft can be moved far enough out of the way, the seal could then be removed with the tranny in place (not sure how easy it would be to drive the new one in, though). Thanks, as always.

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[Cloud9...68]

Hmmm... I just check Clark's Garage, and he says the input shaft is pushed into the transaxle once it is loosened from its clap(s?). This doesn't help me, since I need to get the shaft clear of the seal so I can get to the seal. It sounds like the transaxle has to come out. Oh, well, I already have the axle half-shafts off, so once I get this input shaft loosening figured out, there's not much left to drop the transaxle.

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[tamathumper]

The two windows are for loosening the panheads on each end of the clamp so you can push it back to pull the whole transaxle, and I don't know that you can replace that seal without removing the transaxle, at least not according to the manual(s).

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[Cloud9...68]

There are two clamps, right, one that's visible through the large window, and one that's visible through the round hole? Which of these clamps does the driveshaft slide out of when moving the transaxle forward? And once I have the transaxle out, I wonder how I remove the input shaft so I can replace the seal. Does it just slide out? I don't want to disturb anything inside the transaxle, as it appears to be working perfectly; I just want to replace the leaky seal. Thanks.

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[kwikt]

There is an allen bolt at each end of the clamp which will have to be removed. The coupler is a reel pita to slide IF it has never been moved or slid before. It took me almost 2 hours to get mine slid away from the tranny using a 16" crowbar( would use a longer one but space was limited) and a few shots of Deep Creep penetrating oil. I used the hole for a leveraging point along with a piece of wood for a spacer so I wouldn't damage the aluminum housing opening. Take your time as it will probably move millimeters back and forth when beginning at least mine did.

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[tamathumper]

Two clamps yes, one on each end of a common sleeve. My apologies, you slide the sleeve back according to the manual, then when you drop the transaxle, you drop it to the rear.



You should not have to dismantle anything, there are a couple of special tools to pick the seal and seat the new one, but I'm sure you can improvise without them. The shop manuals, on pages 34-1 to 34-7 show the procedure if I understand correctly what you are trying to do, including the tools required. I'm going from memory and I don't want to mislead you, so double check me.

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[Cloud9...68]

Thanks for the replies, guys. Without this forum, I would be in very deep do-do. The picture of what I have to do is getting clearer. Hopefully my sleeve won't be as hard to slide as what kwikt describes; my clutch fork shaft slid right out, which apparently is an extreme rarity. Here's hoping I have similar luck with this.



So, once the sleeve slides back and out of the way, what does it take to remove the input shaft from the transaxle, since this is the sole reason I'm doing this job? Can it be removed with the tranny in the car, or does it require some sort of "special" tool to remove it, which requires the transaxle to be out of the car? Thanks.

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[tamathumper]

My sleeve was *hard* to move, as in double-h, double-a, well you get the picture. Lots of PBBlaster and WD-40 and heat and crying like a little girl were involved.



You're not trying to remove the shaft are you? I thought you just wanted to replace the seal...

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[Cloud9...68]

"You're not trying to remove the shaft are you? I thought you just wanted to replace the seal... "





[size="2"][color="#1C2837"]The honest truth is that I'm trying to do as little as possible! Yes, I only want to remove and replace the input shaft seal (see the top picture in my first post in this thread), but I don't understand how I could remove the seal without removing the shaft. Thanks.[/color][/size]

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[tamathumper]

Do you have access to the pages I mentioned in the shop manual? I can send you a PDF of them if you need them - I hope we're talking about the same thing. The only thing I can find on Clark's mentions the same removal procedure, loosen the clamps, slide the sleeve back toward the transaxle (thereby blocking access to the seal) and remove the transaxle.

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[tamathumper]

I think this is what you're referring to (sorry, 2MB pdf file)...



Seal Removal



Page 34-7 specifically shows removal of the seal.

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[Cloud9...68]

Tamathumper,



Yes, I do have a copy of the workshop manual, but I neglected to read far enough into the chapter to get to the part about removing the seal! Thanks for finding it for me.



But after having struggled mightily with the seals in the steering rack, all I can say about the method for removing the transaxle input shaft seal (with the shaft still in place!) is [size="3"]YIKES!!!! [/size][size="2"]Even with the "special tool VW681", how on earth am I going to pry/drive/mangle the seal out of its spot? Looks like a nightmare; I hope I'm wrong. And then driving the new one in place, again with the shaft in the way? Groan... I wonder how much a mechanic would charge for this job? Enough to cover the bombing mission going on in Libya, I would imagine...[/size]



[size="2"]OK, so it looks like what I have to do is:[/size]



[size="2"]1. Push the sleeve toward the transaxle until it has released its grip on the input shaft[/size]

[size="2"]2. Slide the shift linkage far enough forward to clear the shifter mechanism; I suppose it would help to move the shift lever into what would be fourth gear.[/size]

[size="2"]3. Loosen the four large bolts holding the torque tube to the transaxle. The manual says they are only torqued to 63 lb-ft, which isn't a whole lot, but with the axle half-shafts already removed, the transaxle rocks quite a bit as I tug on the bolts. I wonder if I'm going to have to place the half-shafts back into to place with a few bolts to support the transaxle while I loosen these bolts...[/size]

[size="2"]4. Borrow my neighbor's motorcyle/transmission jack, and support the transaxle with it [/size]

[size="2"]5. Undo the transmission mount.[/size]

[size="2"]6. Remove the torque tube bolts the rest of the way[/size]

[size="2"]7. Lower the transaxle.[/size]

[size="2"]8. Prepare to do battle with the seal![/size]



[size="2"]Anything I'm missing, or any suggestions to make any of the steps go a little easier? Thanks for all the inputs and suggestions. It seems like every job I tackle on this car is a little more challenging than the last; oh well, I'll be pretty well versed in Porsche 968 mechanics by the time I'm done, which I guess is worth something.[/size]

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[tamathumper]

That little dimple on the back of the VW pick gives you some good leverage against the housing, so removal isn't as bad as those ones on the steering rack might have been, I think the access down in that "cup" of the rack limited your ability to lever the seals out but that's not a problem here. As far as driving the new seal, I generally make a driver out of wood, PVC or brass. I'm lucky to have a small lathe to turn things down to the right diameters, but you can fashion something or find something close at most hardware stores or maybe even Homeless Depot. Be prepared to remove the shift linkage from the bottom of the shifter if necessary, I could not get mine far enough out of the way to remove the transaxle no matter what I did.

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[banditsc]

Your already to drop the trans, the torque tube is free at the front, the axles are dropped, the exhaust is out of the way, so just unbolt that trans and drop it down. It's not that hard, if you had a 944 you probably would have it out already as it has to come out for clutch work. I dropped my 944 one with just a regular jack, so if you have access to a motorcycle jack it will be real easy. Once you have it out, you can give it a good cleaning and throw it on your bench to work on it, or take it to somebody to replace the seal.



By the way, that shaft doesn't come out unless your splitting the case and disassembling it internally.

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[Cloud9...68]

Yes, I'm only a couple of steps away from being able to drop the trans, but it sounds like I might be in for a battle pushing that sleeve out of the way, based on other peoples' recent experience. I'm hoping I'm going to get lucky. Then it's a matter of sliding the shift rod out of the way (which has been problematic so far), and removing the four bolts that attach the tranny to the torque tube.



Yes, I see how the dimple at the back of the VW seal removal tool will provide some leverage, but I'm concerned about how I will be able to get the seal remover under the seal, seeing as the seal is pinned between the sleeve that it fits in, and the input shaft. We'll see when I get to that step, but so far, my experience with seals on this car hasn't been good. Maybe the fact that the seal is leaking means that its fit is no longer very tight, and I'll be able to drive something in there without damaging either the sleeve or the input shaft.

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[tamathumper]

You'll probably want to stick that remover right through the seal, and there are several other ways to get it out, but we'll worry about that when and if the time comes. Remember that penetrant and lubricant are two different things and for this job you'll need both.

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[Cloud9...68]

Tamathumper,



Thanks for all the suggestions. Yes, we'll tackle the seal removal when I get to that step. I was also thinking I'd have to pierce the seal, but we'll see how it goes. As you said, there are several ways to go about attacking it.

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[kwikt]

Pull the tranny and be done with it. I really think you will save some blood an battle scars.

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[Cloud9...68]

Yes, that's the plan, seeing as there appears to be no alternative. I'll tackle the sleeve tonight, and if it comes off, the rest should be pretty easy.

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[kwikt]

Note the motorcycle jack in the tranny pic. Works wonders for tranny drop.

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