[flash]

while i haven't stopped speeding, though i don't generally do it so much with the trailer, the hidden added bonus of having the detector is that it alerts me of potentially stupid people ahead slamming on their brakes in front of me, forcing me to have to do some broken field running with a trailer behind me

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[Anchorman]

Legitimate comment. Maybe I'll break the Passport out for this trip.

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[Anchorman]

This has turned into such a travesty, I don't quite know how to summon the courage to write it. Maybe it will be cathartic.



OK, here goes.



The truck work got done, the truck felt great, and the ride to Maine was uneventful. Early yesterday morning I went to the trailer place and picked up the trailer. Trailer and truck mated nicely, and I was on the road by 8:45 - with some serious trepidation as the trailer really is tremendous.



I've been concerned about weights, so the trailer place directed me to a quarry where I could ask to get weighed. No problem, very nice people, "pull right on the scale". That's when the first bit of bad news for the day was delivered - 16,740 pounds with the trailer empty and only me in the truck. Since I was 99% certain the GCWR (Gross Combined Weight Rating) for the truck was 20,000 lbs, it was immediately evident that two cars were not going in the trailer if we wanted to stay legal. OK - I'll have to call my son and tell him that the truck, which has just had the pleasure of getting all kinds of goodies, maintenance, tires, etc., is not going to be usable for our purpose.



So - I pull off the scale, go to the turnaround area to make a nice sweeping left-hand U-turn, and as I'm doing that I hear BAM - and the rear window of the truck cab has exploded. I conclude (maybe too quickly) that because the truck has a short bed, the corner of the trailer must have hit the window during the sharp part of the turn. One more reason this truck/trailer combo isn't going to work, and now I'd better be real careful on tight turns.



Now I start a backroad trek to the Interstate. Narrow, winding, up and down hills - but I'm able to do it without taking out any roadside mailboxes or other such annoyances. Get to the interstate and find that I'm now south of the service area that I'd identified on the way up as where I wanted to get my first fuel fillup. OK, there's plenty more down the road and I really am not low on fuel.



About 30 minutes later I pull into the next service area. (I'd already decided that I would only go to roadside interstate service areas so that I could pretty much pull straight in and straight out, avoiding the sharp maneuvers that I was concerned about.) OK - follow the truck signs, get to the diesel pumps, and fill up with no problem. Now I want to park and take a little break. Well, the truck parking area is a zoo - very crowded, narrow lanes, and the only available spaces are ones that I'd have to back out of (or wait for the truck that would be in front of me to leave). I decide to go to the next service area, so I start to leave this one. I'm proceeding down a lane between trucks, heading to the end where I need to make a left to get back to the highway. I'm concerned about getting too "deep" before starting the left (because then it would have to be too sharp), so I slowly and carefully go as far as I think I can before beginning the left. All seems to be OK until I feel like the brakes have been applied - but they haven't been. I stop - everything in the mirrors looks OK, so what's going on? Well, looking out the driver's side window told me - I'd turned a little too early and the side of the trailer was now impaled by the rear corner of a flatbed trailer. I'm SICK!!! I start to figure out what I want to do - Reverse? to the left? to the right? forward? to the right? Somehow or other, I manage to get free, and I'm so embarrassed and upset, I simply drive away - with pieces of the side of the trailer visible in the rearview mirror flapping in the wind.



Making a long story slightly shorter, the rest of the trip was nerve-wracking but event-free. Even a few troopers passed me, gave the trailer and me the "eye" but didn't see the need to pull me over.



So - the tally now is that we need to get the trailer repaired (my guess is that the bill will be in the $3,000 range), the truck replaced, and the women in our lives accepting of the fact that we're really not crazy and over our heads.



Done for now.

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[flash]

this just made me sick reading it - wow



guessing the truck was 6k, i have a hard time imagining that trailer at 10000 lbs, but i guess they had to use much bigger frame rails for the extra length - i was figuring it to be more like 7k tops - ugh - that's heavy - i think i'd weigh it again, or contact the manufacturer for a spec



legal at 20k? is that the "recommended" max weight? is there another issue?



i didn't know it was a shortbed, but if the gooseneck was placed properly, it still should have worked without making contact with the window - any chance of a shot of it hitched up?



again, this makes me sick just thinking about it - let me know how i can help

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[banditsc]

If you don't mind the looks of the trailer for now, just cut away the torn pieces and rivet in a sheet of aluminum, then paint to match. It may not be perfect, but it's a cheap fix for now.

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[Anchorman]

Thanks, Flash - I haven't been feeling to good since this happened.



I'm now convinced that the trailer didn't hit the window - that the cab "twisted" during the turn on uneven pavement and the window gave out. Doesn't really matter at this point, though, since the truck is not being kept. (Boy, is that ever going to be painful!)



As I've learned, there are all kinds of weight issues to deal with. The particularly one that just hit us in the face is the GCWR - that's the maximum total allowable weight of the loaded truck and loaded trailer. This monster of a trailer apparently weighs in the range of 8,000 lbs as is - I wasn't able to get a trailer-only weight yesterday. (BTW - "as is" is with the extra 6" of height over the standard, and with a generator on board.) The trailer has a maximum loaded weight of 15,000 lbs - and we'll be awful close to that once we put my 3,240lb Porsche and my son's 3,400lb Maserati in it. Add a little gear, and we're there! (Which is OK - we can live with that.)



That says that the truck's GCWR has to be 15,000 lbs plus the weight of the truck - which seems to be at least another 8,000 lbs, for a total of 23,000 lbs. Newer F350 trucks (with the right engine and rear axle ratio) are rated at 26,000 lbs - regrettably, the one we have seems to be rated at 20,000 lbs.



However, an encouraging phone call with Flash that just ended suggests that if we have enough engine and brakes (which my drive yesterday suggests that we do), we could beef up the truck suspension and/or frame to give it the needed strength. I'm going to look at this before we change trucks - thanks, Bob.



Bandit, part of me says that's the way to go - thanks for the suggestion. My son, though, is much more anal than I am, and I don't think he could live with that look. We'll find out, though, once we have a better estimate.

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[flash]

wow - ok - found a few "specs" on the truck - all about 7k lbs



that makes the trailer about 9k - pretty heavy, but given the added height, and generator and all that, i guess maybe - i'd still weigh it again



as for the truck - you can beef that up pretty easily - as long as you have the brakes and power (which i think you do), the frame is easily reinforced, as is the suspension - a few pieces of angle iron and a pair of helwigs, and you should be good to go - you aren't looking to go very far beyond the spec, only seeking a 20% increase, so i think you will be ok

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[Anchorman]

I've gotten a little further information on the truck. Ford tells me that it has the Dana heavy duty 4:11 rear axle. All of the Ford truck guys are convinced that this truck can handle up to 24-25,000 lbs. I'm now (with a sigh) becoming convinced that, as long as we don't exceed the rated load on the rear axle, we have a workable truck. (I also need to physically confirm that there is no possibility of unwanted trailer/truck contact, but I'm already there intellectually.)



The only think I need now are weights - at the least, the weight of the empty trailer. We've arranged to bring the trailer to an authorized Pace center on Saturday, the over-the-phone guess is that everything can be done within a week.



At this point, if we can "save" the truck, repairing the trailer won't feel nearly so bad. Great thing, this stuff call "psychology".

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[Anchorman]

Well, the problems just don't seem to want to go away.



I may have mentioned earlier (possibly not, I really don't remember) that the truck has a short bed. Well, that's creating a fundamental mismatch, and I now know for certain that the broken rear window was, in fact, caused by the corner of the trailer hitting the back of the truck's cab. Without going into the details, I'm not even sure that the truck bed is the issue - I'm coming to the conclusion that this trailer cannot be mated with a pickup.



So - I got the trailer to the Pace dealer to get a repair estimate. However, given the conclusion I've reached, I think we'll have to abandon this trailer (sell it for whatever we can get for it) and get another gooseneck trailer that has a tapered nose. And, as long as we're doing that, get one that can handle the weight we need while staying within the various axle, total trailer, and total truck/trailer weight restrictions.



I'm going to call the Pace dealer and see (i) what he'll give us for the trailer (in its unrepaired condition) and (ii) if he has, or can source, a trailer better suited to our needs (which may have to be...gulp...a Featherlite).



Those of you that are interested...stay tuned, there's clearly another chapter or two to this saga.

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[Anchorman]

Upon further thought, I need to tap the experience of those that have done trailering.



How often do you find the need to get the truck at 90 degrees or more to the trailer? How big a limitation on maneuvering would it be to have to stay at 90 degrees or less? Based on your experience, consider what this would imply with respect to towing a trailer of the size I'm talking about - 44' gooseneck.



In advance, thanks.

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[flash]

i have never seen anybody get near 90 degrees, let alone past it - beyond 90 degrees you would actually move the trailer FORWARD while still in reverse - that can't be good



pretty sure i have not gone much past 45 degrees in recent years - bad things happen when you go that far

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[banditsc]

Ya, 90 is way to far. I would take that truck and trailer out in a big empty parking lot and start practicing with it. Bring a long a second person that can watch the truck and trailer from the outside and yell to you when you start getting to close.

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[Anchorman]

Thanks for the quick replies - very helpful. Right now, I can't do some maneuvers that are clearly "normal" without getting contact between the trailer and the truck cab. However, if I put a longer "hitch extension" on the gooseneck, I can create additional clearance. Based on what you're telling me, I might get enough clearance to make this combo work.

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[flash]

can you take a shot and post it? i'm having a hard time imagining it's that close

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[Anchorman]

I don't have the rig connected any more - the trailer is at the trailer place and the truck is at my son's. However, here's the math that makes it evident.



The center of the ball in the truck is approximately 42" from the rear window. The trailer is 102" wide, so half of that is 51". As the truck turns, the leading edge of the trailer moves towards the rear window. The 51" half only has 42" to go before it hits the truck. I'm going to do some drawings once I have exact measurements, but that's basically the problem. I was able to verify today that the rear window was broken by the trailer - there's a dent in the body right by the bottom corner of the window - which explains why the window popped out, rather than breaking inwards - the trailer hit the body, not the window.



The trailer currently has about an 8" extension on the hitch. If I make the extension longer, it will create more "space" before the trailer hits the truck body - and if I can get that to be enough, I'll do it. It's not simple math, because the extension doesn't change the distance between the pivot point (the ball) and the truck - the extension just makes the arc wider, and therefore enables more "angle" between the truck and trailer before they contact. The question is - can I get enough?



I hope this is understandable. Looking at it this morning, the problem became self-evident.

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[flash]

i get the math - the short bed is about 8" shorter (axle to window), so you run into this if you make the mistake of approaching 90 degrees - it shouldn't get anywhere near that though during driving



i did a quick drawing, and at about a 60 degree turn, you make contact - i've never seen anybody turn that tightly, but i do see the problem



i agree - get out to a parking lot with somebody and take a look

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[Anchorman]

I could be wrong, but I think a critical difference between your experience and what I'm having to deal with is the length of this trailer, which requires maneuvers that need more "angle" than would be the case with a shorter trailer.



The challenge is not during normal driving. It's during parking and other such times - like making a U-turn coming out of a weigh station.



Looking at a Trailering web site, I found this: with any gooseneck you can turn far enough to hit the cab but it would be nice to at least get close to 80-90 degrees before encountering problems.



That's what I need to get to so that this big trailer can be maneuvered safely. We'll see - dusting off the mechanical drawing stuff (don't have such software on my current computer).

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[flash]

quite possibly, but still, that seems like a lot



rule number one - no U-turns - you have to start thinking way ahead and think in terms of big paths - often you will have to go around a block with a trailer to make a turn that would be a simple u-turn in a car



lol - that's exactly what i did - broke out the square, triangle, and compass and drew it out at a 1/20 scale

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[Anchorman]

Boy, is that a lesson I've already learned. When I towed the trailer to the repair shop yesterday, the turn into the street was too tight for me to make without risking another rear window breakage. I ended up driving another 4 miles before I got to a shopping center that I thought would allow me sufficient room for wide turns. Well, I was wrong - and I was in the middle of trying a "K"-type turn that simply wasn't working. I ended up going up one lane, reversing down it until I was passed the place where I'd entered, and then driving out. Before I figured that out, I was close to abandoning ship. Then, when I got to the trailer place, it's entry is tight - and, again to avoid window breakage as well as taking down a utility pole, I had to swing wide enough to put the truck over the curb onto grass, while one side of the trailer was also over the curb onto grass. That was another time that I almost gave up.



That's why I need to get more "angle" room.



I just received an email for the trailer shop where the guy I'm dealing with wrote "Jim, I have solved the problem! I think I have my next patent!" He has several patents hanging on the wall of his office for various kinds of tool storage and racking systems. I don't know what his answer is to my problem, but maybe he's come up with something. He and I had noodled over some possibilities, and maybe he's made one of them work. Can't wait to find out!

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[Anchorman]

A brief update of what's been (and still is) quite a complicated situation.



The only answer that seems like it can be done in time for us to leave for VIR in two weeks is to convert the trailer to a fifth wheel hitch, and install a fifth wheel hitch in the bed of the truck with the selected hitch being one that automatically slides rearward in tight turns, providing up to 18" of additional "room" between the front of the trailer and the back of the truck's cab. We're working on specification, procurement, and installation details right now - along, of course, with pressing to get the trailer damage repaired.

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